Ngannou vs Prime Cro Cop in a ring | Page 3

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by wrestlefan, Dec 7, 2017 at 7:16 AM.

  1. moreorless87 Gold Belt

    moreorless87
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    In what respects would you say that? I think Stipe is a better wrestler than Sergei without being a great one, boxing wise I think Sergei was the slicker of the two personally back then(obviously more a lumbering brawler now) and showed the sub game to roll with Nog and Werdum without ever being in danger, not to mention destroying Semmy.

    Whats changed is that the top guys today all have really obvious weaknesses to target, that's what Stipe's done recent making Werdum, Reem and JDS look poor. Against someone like Nog though there was no obvious weakness to target, good boxing and excellent grappling.
     
    #41
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017 at 9:35 AM
  2. Bubblun Brown Belt

    Bubblun
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    He is bigger, fitter and better everywhere, is that simple.
    Miocic is a 250 pounds tank with cardio for 5 rounds, properly trained, great solid boxing, solid wrestling and doesn't make mistakes.



    This fight is actually a good example of low level mma.
    The giant striker going for a guillotine from standing and losing the position like an idiot, the superior grappler getting reversed from the mount because the guy on bottom grabbed his wrists and rolled him, Gracie Jiu Jitsu lesson 1 stuff.
    You don't see mistakes like that anymore, fighters barely, very rarely do mistakes anymore.
    If you can't see that it's your limit.

    Using a combat sport analogy, it's like watching the blue belt IBJJF Wolds, every match is super exciting, ending 9-6 or something like that.
    In the black belts division most of the matches end by advantages or close results, like 2-2, the matches are less exciting, there is a lot of stalling and a complete novice could even think that the blue belts are better.
    But the black belts simply don't want to make mistakes because they know that if they give an inch to the opponent it could cost them the fight.
    And if you see the black belts going against the blue belts, the blue belts would get their as whooped.
     
    #42
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  3. moreorless87 Gold Belt

    moreorless87
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    My memory is that he was typically around 220-225lbs in Pride, against Wanderlei he was the latter with SIlva at 229lbs.
     
    #43
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  4. PRIDEWASBETTER United We Stand

    PRIDEWASBETTER
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    Mirko. Pretty convincingly, imo.
     
    #44
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  5. cedented Green Belt

    cedented
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    How about Ngannou vs. African Elephant or a Polar Bear or a Liger?
     
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  6. Fight Professor Silver Belt

    Fight Professor
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    He was supposed to murder the entire UFC division especially gatekeepers like Gonzaga and Kongo.
     
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  7. Vehap1 Green Belt

    Vehap1
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    He beats Rico and Badr hari at the same night
    Also Anthony joshua & Wilder
     
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  8. MyEnglishIsPeperoni Yellow Card

    MyEnglishIsPeperoni
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    "Ngannou vs Prime Cro Cop in a ring"
    <seedat>
     
    #48
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  9. Bubblun Brown Belt

    Bubblun
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    Semmy wasn't fighting in the 90ies, Semmy was actually a mma fighter before being a K-1 fighter, kinda like Overeem.

    Most of the guys you named weren't 260 fit like Verhoeven, not even close.
    The average K-1 heavyweight back in the day was a lot smaller.

    I said he was 200-220 in his K-1 and Pride days, go read my original post.
    In the early K-1 days he was smaller.
     
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  10. Ol'Ironhead Brown Belt

    Ol'Ironhead
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    Show me proof Mirko weighed 200lbs in pride or 210. Because you can’t. Even when he fought dos caras in 2002 he was 227 lbs. so sorry but you are full of shit.
     
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  11. moreorless87 Gold Belt

    moreorless87
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    Cardio wise I think Stipe clearly gassed against JDS the first time about halway though the fight and that combined with sloppy technique is what ended up costing him...

    [​IMG]

    Marching forward with chin out throwing a 1-2(he did this a lot not just in this gif), I really cannot see the argument for superior boxing technique to Sergei who was a serious Olympic prospect. Not to mention the loss to Struve standing, looking like Semmy doesn't mean you can fight like him.

    As far as Sergei/Semmy goes I think what you really see there is that Schilt by that point(not his early pancrase days) was a FAR better grappler than he's given credit for by many today. Wrist control especially is something he was well known for( just watch the Fedor fight) and he uses it to hit that sweep very nicely. The issue he faced was though that back then you have guys with good combined wrestling and sub grappling like Fedor, Nog, Barnett and Sergei. Today I actually think that Semmy would do serious damage at HW against opponents with limited grappling games, I see him beating JDS, Reem, Arlovski and indeed Stipe

    Explain to me if Sergei was a poor grappler making terrible mistakes how did he totally neutralise Werdum? the same with Nog.
     
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  12. Bubblun Brown Belt

    Bubblun
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    I said K-1 and Pride days, are you dense?
    Between 200-220, an interval, that's what i meant.

    If he got up to 227, my bad, he was bigger.
    Still there aren't 227 pounds heavyweights today.
     
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  13. bigconan Red Belt

    bigconan
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    those guys you mentioned, deonte wilder...he'd get murdered by the heavyweights in the 70's...foreman, ali, frazier, those guys would have killed anthony joshua and his like.
     
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  14. Bubblun Brown Belt

    Bubblun
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    Have you seen that fight? That was a 5 rounds war between 2 heavyweights.
    Easy to look sloppy in a selected GIF, that was a war, and JDS is a supreme boxer, that was a good counter by JDS.
    Look how Crocop looked against a younger JDS.


    Kharitonov wasn't a poor grappler, he had huge flaws and made critical mistakes that cost him a lot of fights he should have won.
    He lost against Nogueira because Noguiraa at some point was able to take him down with a sloppy double leg, Nogueira not an NCAA wrestler.
    Obviously Noguiera put his knees on the ground doing the double leg, like you are not supposed to do, especially at heavyweight when you have to carry a giant.
    You aren't supposed to do mistakes like that at the highest level.
     
    #54
  15. Summoning Yellow Card

    Summoning
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    [​IMG]
     
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  16. Bubblun Brown Belt

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    Yeah sure, and Crocop would have beaten Ngannou and my girlfriend told me that size doesn't matter.

    Listen dude, there is a reason why there aren't 220 pounds heavyweights anymore.
     
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  17. firstroundpick Green Belt

    firstroundpick
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  18. moreorless87 Gold Belt

    moreorless87
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    The reality is after about 10-12 mins vs JDS Stipe was quite clearly tired, I mean both men clearly were but that I'd say helped push the fight in Jnr's favour due to his superior chin. In terms of boxing JDS has his clear strengths, he throws some well timed overhands and hooks from range but I don't think you can call him a master boxer. His technique when backing up is clearly very limited lacking in a decent straight counter and VERY upright and easy to land on, I think he's have been punished a lot more for that were he fighting a few years previously. Again it isn't just in that selected Gif, Stipe is marching forward throwing those kinds of punchs time after time, reaching with his chin out, JDS's lack of counters allows him to get away with it until he lands the low percentage hook.

    As far as Nog goes I wouldn't say his wrestling was poor at all, look at Maia today for example who has no wrestling background yet consistently gets guys to the ground(and Nog had the advantage of far better striking to mix it up). Both of them obviously have the advantage that there unafraid to end up on their backs against most opponents(maybe not Fedor the 3rd time and Werdum) which allows them to commit to the double leg far more. For his size I would say Nogs shoot was pretty quick as well, look at the first takedown vs Sergei for example and tell me that's poor wrestling. Crocop shut him down for awhile but Crocop shut down Coleman, that's not a sign someone has poor wrestling.

    What you do see of course is an era of greater aggression grappling wise, fighters being a lot more willing to take risks looking for subs or dominant position because the judging favoured it and they had the technique where as today most fighters play it safe lying in guard or half guard never making distance or going for subs.

    Again if Sergei wasn't that hot a grappler how do you explain Werdums inability to do anything to him on the ground? this is a young agile BJJ world champ Werdum arguably in his grappling prime. The same indeed with Nog vs Werdum, if the latter represents a big increase in talent why wasn't he able to make it count?
     
    #58
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017 at 10:44 AM
  19. Kersleg White Belt

    Kersleg
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    ngannou by head clean off
     
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  20. Chindit Orange Belt

    Chindit
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    Pre or Post USADA ?

    Considering the fact that polar bears suffer from losing sea ice, they aren't in their prime anymore. If Francis win, it's against a weakened polar bear. A 19th century' polar bear would have killed him.
     
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