Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by wrestlefan, Dec 7, 2017.
Mirko. Pretty convincingly, imo.
How about Ngannou vs. African Elephant or a Polar Bear or a Liger?
He was supposed to murder the entire UFC division especially gatekeepers like Gonzaga and Kongo.
He beats Rico and Badr hari at the same night
Also Anthony joshua & Wilder
"Ngannou vs Prime Cro Cop in a ring"
Semmy wasn't fighting in the 90ies, Semmy was actually a mma fighter before being a K-1 fighter, kinda like Overeem.
Most of the guys you named weren't 260 fit like Verhoeven, not even close.
The average K-1 heavyweight back in the day was a lot smaller.
I said he was 200-220 in his K-1 and Pride days, go read my original post.
In the early K-1 days he was smaller.
Show me proof Mirko weighed 200lbs in pride or 210. Because you can’t. Even when he fought dos caras in 2002 he was 227 lbs. so sorry but you are full of shit.
Cardio wise I think Stipe clearly gassed against JDS the first time about halway though the fight and that combined with sloppy technique is what ended up costing him...
Marching forward with chin out throwing a 1-2(he did this a lot not just in this gif), I really cannot see the argument for superior boxing technique to Sergei who was a serious Olympic prospect. Not to mention the loss to Struve standing, looking like Semmy doesn't mean you can fight like him.
As far as Sergei/Semmy goes I think what you really see there is that Schilt by that point(not his early pancrase days) was a FAR better grappler than he's given credit for by many today. Wrist control especially is something he was well known for( just watch the Fedor fight) and he uses it to hit that sweep very nicely. The issue he faced was though that back then you have guys with good combined wrestling and sub grappling like Fedor, Nog, Barnett and Sergei. Today I actually think that Semmy would do serious damage at HW against opponents with limited grappling games, I see him beating JDS, Reem, Arlovski and indeed Stipe
Explain to me if Sergei was a poor grappler making terrible mistakes how did he totally neutralise Werdum? the same with Nog.
I said K-1 and Pride days, are you dense?
Between 200-220, an interval, that's what i meant.
If he got up to 227, my bad, he was bigger.
Still there aren't 227 pounds heavyweights today.
those guys you mentioned, deonte wilder...he'd get murdered by the heavyweights in the 70's...foreman, ali, frazier, those guys would have killed anthony joshua and his like.
Have you seen that fight? That was a 5 rounds war between 2 heavyweights.
Easy to look sloppy in a selected GIF, that was a war, and JDS is a supreme boxer, that was a good counter by JDS.
Look how Crocop looked against a younger JDS.
Kharitonov wasn't a poor grappler, he had huge flaws and made critical mistakes that cost him a lot of fights he should have won.
He lost against Nogueira because Noguiraa at some point was able to take him down with a sloppy double leg, Nogueira not an NCAA wrestler.
Obviously Noguiera put his knees on the ground doing the double leg, like you are not supposed to do, especially at heavyweight when you have to carry a giant.
You aren't supposed to do mistakes like that at the highest level.
Yeah sure, and Crocop would have beaten Ngannou and my girlfriend told me that size doesn't matter.
Listen dude, there is a reason why there aren't 220 pounds heavyweights anymore.
The reality is after about 10-12 mins vs JDS Stipe was quite clearly tired, I mean both men clearly were but that I'd say helped push the fight in Jnr's favour due to his superior chin. In terms of boxing JDS has his clear strengths, he throws some well timed overhands and hooks from range but I don't think you can call him a master boxer. His technique when backing up is clearly very limited lacking in a decent straight counter and VERY upright and easy to land on, I think he's have been punished a lot more for that were he fighting a few years previously. Again it isn't just in that selected Gif, Stipe is marching forward throwing those kinds of punchs time after time, reaching with his chin out, JDS's lack of counters allows him to get away with it until he lands the low percentage hook.
As far as Nog goes I wouldn't say his wrestling was poor at all, look at Maia today for example who has no wrestling background yet consistently gets guys to the ground(and Nog had the advantage of far better striking to mix it up). Both of them obviously have the advantage that there unafraid to end up on their backs against most opponents(maybe not Fedor the 3rd time and Werdum) which allows them to commit to the double leg far more. For his size I would say Nogs shoot was pretty quick as well, look at the first takedown vs Sergei for example and tell me that's poor wrestling. Crocop shut him down for awhile but Crocop shut down Coleman, that's not a sign someone has poor wrestling.
What you do see of course is an era of greater aggression grappling wise, fighters being a lot more willing to take risks looking for subs or dominant position because the judging favoured it and they had the technique where as today most fighters play it safe lying in guard or half guard never making distance or going for subs.
Again if Sergei wasn't that hot a grappler how do you explain Werdums inability to do anything to him on the ground? this is a young agile BJJ world champ Werdum arguably in his grappling prime. The same indeed with Nog vs Werdum, if the latter represents a big increase in talent why wasn't he able to make it count?
ngannou by head clean off
Pre or Post USADA ?
Considering the fact that polar bears suffer from losing sea ice, they aren't in their prime anymore. If Francis win, it's against a weakened polar bear. A 19th century' polar bear would have killed him.
we are in the weakest heavyweight time in history...aside from the rocky marciano era...There was a monstrous heavyweight years ago...I forget his name...i'm talking years ago...the guy was a monster..yet he couldn't deal with smaller guys.
[Dan Aykroyd ghostbusters deleted sceen tramp voice] Chuck Wepner! [/Dan Aykroyd ghostbusters deleted sceen tramp voice]
BJJ isn't magic, i am a purple belt and it's not easy to sub someone from the guard, no gi even harder, at heavyweight and at the highest level in mma where you could stall all day if you are on top it's almost impossible.
There is a reason you barely see submission anymore in mma and even less at heavyweight, it's not because the level went down, it's the opposite, the level got up and nobody is willing to play on the ground anymore because if you are on bottom you are losing.
I haven't seen Kharitonov against Werdum in ages, but it's easy to shut down someone from the guard if you are on top, just put your hands on their biceps and stall, you could do that even if you are clueless.
This is a great seminar Cormier and Velasquez did in Russia (and it's free, god bless the internet).
At 34 minutes Cormier says that at the highest level in mma nobody want to play guard anymore, they want to stand up, and Crazy Bob Cook on the bottom says" we want them to play guard".
You play guard in 2017 and you lose the fight, unless you are a freak with no articulations like Brian Ortega that can catch submissions from anywhere.
This is a folkstyle drill at AKA, the guy on bottom wants to stand up, you see Cain wrestling with Todd Duffee meanwhile Cormier says to someone "get up, forget that jiu jitsu shit".
Nogueira had poor wrestling, there is not way around it.
That takedown against Kharitonov was bad, you don't go to your knees in mma, and at heavyweight you are asking to get sprawled and carry a big ass man on top of you, if the guy know how to wrestle, unlike Kharitonov.
Cormier says the same thing in that video i linked above, if you are interested.
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