Economy New study: Medicare for all to save 5.1 trillion dollars

DEN said:
Well you do take advantage of said system as clinics and doctor visits dont utilize your private insurance, as far as I know. I oppose a two tier healthcare system in Canada because economic circumstances shouldnt dictate access access to healthcare.
The system you propose sounds like something Americans could find attractive.
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I go to a private clinic, none of which gets public funding for physician and specialists.

And a two tier systems doesnt prevent access to healthcare - we have a two tiered system in canada , people still can see a doctor regardless of income (unless youre in remote areas)
 
oleDirtyBast4rd said:
So you admit that you only support equality when it suits you?
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I suport a democracy that votes in the will of the people.

As a christian I am required to work for the wellbeing of the poorest and leaste among us. I support a view that recognizes we are all an important piece of the whole and a certain dignity ought to be protected for the poor.

Christian charity has proven that this will never happen through individual donations plus this approach is massively inconvenient anyway. The best way is to vote it in through our beautiful democracy.
 
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DEN said:
Yeah there seems to be a system already in place that just needs to be expanded. If it's already in place for old people I dont see why you cant just widen the tent.
Different culture though, hard for me to judge.
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The problem is indeed with the culture. Murkans have been brainwashed into believing that even if it saves money and is more efficient, 'its just not right' for poor people, even if they are working hard, to have first-world living conditions.
 
Sohei said:
You dont know what youre talking about man in Canada people die waiting in line!!!

<Ellaria01>
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A Canadian who had to escape socialized healthcare in Canada and go to America for a life saving surgery:
 
tinker_190 said:
Yeah but that is entirely subjective and can't really be argued for/against here. It is just your personal rational self interest and opinion. I do admit though that this highlights a huge flaw in the zeitgeist in the discussion here. The idea of "taxing the rich more" to pay for this will really only end up taxing the upper middle class substantially more. This whole argument tends to get framed like their is some Monopoly Man with a Scrooge McDuck vault we can raid and once we do, Utopia is ours.
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Well i was addressing the canada system to a canadian poster; the US system can allot single payer without rasing taxes on anyone if they revamped current spending from administration and healtcare worker pay to service and accessibility - the study doesnt really focus on that, as its suggesting keep quality, status while increasing public revenue to spread access. However, its been tried in vermont and once people realized their taxes go up, the support for public option dwindled -- I would love to see the reaction of the populace if they implemented a federal sales tax to pay for UHC.

I do wish these threads mention that the US could aide in lowering their costs by not subsidizing the worlds biomedical research due to them being responsible for 50% of the worlds share.
 
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Wont work. US doesnt just rely on the less fortunate to be poor, but also less healthy than the rich.
 
44nutman said:
The rubes have been convinced that having the worst health care system for Modern countries on the planet, watching US life expectancy decrease and paying more for shitty health care, is the optimal thing. Whenever we have discussion the same rubes try to shut it down.
Our system is broken and and last election is one the most concerning issue for voters, yet no elected officials try to do shit about it. If UHC gets passed you can blame the current elected officials for sitting on their ass, and not dealing with Health Care.
Something needs to be done, because right now we are paying for a Benz and driving a Yugo.
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communist...
 
Farmer Br0wn said:
This is a bald-faced lie. This "study" is little more than a sales pitch for a Medicare expansion.

Anyone with half a brain, and even basic skills in Mathematics will be able to tell you that this will be a net cost.

If the people involved in this study are going to lie, they just as well lie big. Tell people that "Medicare for all" will save them $768 Octillion dollars! Anyone who is willing to believe the 5.1 trillion dollar number, would have no problem believing any other number you would give them.
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The Koch brothers recently leaked the same results from separate study funded by them and that is when I knew the Koch brothers were actually reptilian plants working against God and his conservative agenda.
 
EradiatedHaggis said:
Yes, we know you are too stupid to understand and breath through your mouth...no need to post your photo.

BTW, here is another very truthful, non-biased "study".
http://www.climatedepot.com/2017/02...r-willie-soon-exposes-global-warming-science/

PROOF THAT THE SUN IS CAUSING CLIMATE CHANGE. Does NOT matter that he was funded by Exxon to produce these results. All that matters is the study, not the bias.

<LordRoose>
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Wait, did you call me a nose breather? Please clarify this baffling statement. Also, clarify as to why you are unable or unwilling to read information and discard or use it without soaking a pillow and screaming into it, in text form, of course.
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Farmer Br0wn said:
A Canadian who had to escape socialized healthcare in Canada and go to America for a life saving surgery:
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The only Canadians who do this(very few) are rich ones who want to skip lines because they want to blow a bunch of money and not have to wait their turn.

There are more Murkans who try to jump the border in the border states and get Canadian health care.

Murkans trying to make fake OHIP cards to get health care in Ontario for the past 20 years or so:

https://www.nytimes.com/1993/12/20/world/americans-filching-free-health-care-in-canada.html

Murkan from Michigan who married a Canadian and used a fake address to get her daughter healthcare:



Face it, your health care system is zhit and indicative of a third world plutocracy.
 
I’d bet my left hand that combing through this study in detail yields a multitude of assumptions that are simply not grounded.

Peer-review with these types of publications is akin to finding a couple friends who skim the content and say “looks good.”
 
Greoric said:
How does a compulsory funded monopoly (that's government) allocate resources more efficiently than a decentralized market? Have you looked into that?
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Without slave labor, governments cannot compete with Free Markets. It's why telecommunications, transportation, and delivery service (mail, packages, etc.) get their lunch eaten by private market competition. The same would happen in healthcare. Only an economic fool would believe otherwise, as they are going against the entire history of economics.
 
panamaican said:
Well, since it's the payment portion, production of Healthcare isn't what it is tasked with.

Improvements in the factors of production would come from the providers themselves who are operating from the same market forces they currently operate under - specifically customer acquisition and service provision.
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The providers and the administrators don't have the market signals to be making those allocations. That's the point. When the consumers are people that are compelled to pay you're fucking any possibility of those factors of production from being appropriate.
 
Whippy McGee said:
Without slave labor, governments cannot compete with Free Markets. It's why telecommunications, transportation, and delivery service (mail, packages, etc.) get their lunch eaten by private market competition. The same would happen in healthcare. Only an economic fool would believe otherwise, as they are going against the entire history of economics.
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I'm glad you brought that up. The same shit that makes leviathan corporations inefficient as fuck is the same shit that makes governments. It's simply an appreciation for local knowledge, not present with either of those.
 
But that 5.1 trillion should be going to bank accounts of executives of health insurance companies.
 
Greoric said:
The providers and the administrators don't have the market signals to be making those allocations. That's the point. When the consumers are people that are compelled to pay you're fucking any possibility of those factors of production from being appropriate.
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Sure they do. Single payer means no more insurance groups. So instead of a captured market based on your insurance providers, all patients can go to all healthcare providers.

That means that the providers will now have to compete for customers directly. Doctor A will have to outcompete Doctor B to maximize customers. Hospital A will have to outcompete Hospital B to land the most popular doctors and to maximize customers.

Single payer is not the same thing as government provided healthcare.
 
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