Economy New study: Medicare for all to save 5.1 trillion dollars

[franklinstower]

Look dude, pro tip. Most of the literature you read... I mean the real hard-science research.... Is bullshit (fucked methodology. fucked numbers. whatever). What do you think that says about the social sciences?

Translation- "I know more than all the resesrchers from either of these seperately funded studies. Trust me I don't even have to read them to know this".

Ill just take your word for it.

 

[japman40]

This link I posted gives a succinct breakdown of the actual study, so you don't actually have to read the whole study.

https://jacobinmag.com/2018/12/medicare-for-all-study-peri-sanders

"Uninsured families who make $35,000 would pay about $600 in taxes and would no longer face any financial barriers to medical care. Middle-income families who make $60,000 currently spend up to $10,000 per year on health care, while under Medicare for All they would spend only $900 in taxes. High-income families, on the other hand, would see their subsidy disappear and instead begin paying a meager 3.9 percent of their income in taxes.

Again, co-pays and deductibles would completely disappear"

 

[VivaRevolution]

There is NO way in hell the people yelling for this have had to deal with an elderly relative on Medicare. Yes, it's better than nothing but it's not something they themselves would want as opposed to private care

I have a Cadillac union HC plan, and VA care. In some things the Cadillac union plan is better. In some ways the VA care is better.

I bet their are allot of people that would wait a week longer for an appointment, for a capped 5$ co-pay on any service.

The truth of VA HC is that it is great for accute HC issues. I have received better care at the VA for an accute health issue, then I did in private care.

It is the chronic and preventative care the VA really sucks at, and where wait times get insane.

I think the best solution is to force all accute HC to Medicare for all, and preventative and chronic health keep in the private sector.

Their is no consumer choice in accute health issues. You get it treated or you die for the most part. The government seems to need to play a large role in balancing a market that does not operate like any other.

 

[oleDirtyBast4rd]

Even the highly partisan Koch funded studied showed it saved money over our current system. Read the actual study and then discuss the research

Saves who money exactly? They're paying for the system off the backs of taxpayers. Wouldnt I save more money if I didnt have to pay for others medical bills?

 

[franklinstower]

Saves who money exactly? They're paying for the system off the backs of taxpayers. Wouldnt I save more money if I didnt have to pay for others medical bills?

If you have health insurance you already pay for other people's bills.

 

[oleDirtyBast4rd]

High-income families, on the other hand, would see their subsidy disappear and instead begin paying a meager 3.9 percent of their income in taxes.

Why should the rich subsidize the poor?

 

[oleDirtyBast4rd]

If you have health insurance you already pay for other people's bills.

Right... other people are paying into the insurance system too. I'm not subsidising their premiums am I?

I would also have the choice to get insurance or not

 

[franklinstower]

Right... other people are paying into the insurance system too. I'm not subsidising their premiums am I?

I would also have the choice to get insurance or not

Yes you are. Everyone who is paying in is paying for other peoples health care. That's kind of the point of health insurance in a nutshell.

And if you choose to be uninsured then you are the worst kind of freeloader who racks up unnecessary medical bills by needing to enter the ER-- and we all pay for that too.

Anyone who opts out of insurance also ought to be banned from receiving free care IMO. People need to pull their own weight and the person who chooses not to be covered is the worst kind of mooch around.

 

[hillelslovak87]

Still. Id be willing to give u guys UHC if we could end our foreign intervention and we end the war on drugs. Maybe end the Income tax and replace it with a consumption tax. Deal?

Okay, you have me interested. What else ya got?

 

[oleDirtyBast4rd]

Yes you are. Everyone who is paying in is paying for other peoples health care. That's kind of the point of health insurance in a nutshell.

Lol serious dude? Those people "I'm paying for" have been paying their premiums so they can get care when they need it, just like me. I dont have an issue with these people "using my money". I take issue with people who dont pay into the system or pay peanuts compared to everybody else getting free care.

And if you choose not to be uninsured then you are the worst kind of freeloader who racks up unnecessary medical bills by needing to enter the ER-- and we all pay for that too

Just because you dont pay health insurance doesn't mean you're going to be a burden on the medical system. You speaking about freeloading while at the same time championing the UHC cause is baffling

Anyone who opts out of insurance also ought to be banned from receiving free care IMO. People need to pull their own weight and the person who chooses not to be covered is the worst kind of mooch around.

Agreed. Dont pay dont recieve. If you expect things without paying for them then you're a mooch. What were you saying about UHC again?

 

[franklinstower]

Lol serious dude? Those people "I'm paying for" have been paying their premiums so they can get care when they need it, just like me. I dont have an issue with these people "using my money". I take issue with people who dont pay into the system or pay peanuts compared to everybody else getting free care.



Just because you dont pay health insurance doesn't mean you're going to be a burden on the medical system. You speaking about freeloading while at the same time championing the UHC cause is baffling



Agreed. Dont pay dont recieve. If you expect things without paying for them then you're a mooch. What were you saying about UHC again?

If you agree that people who choose to opt out of health care should receive no emergency services then we disagree on very little. People pay premiums yes, that is true, but when any kind of costly medical issue arises they take more than they have given to the system-- that is where you come in and help by paying your premiums. You are paying for other people's care already it's just that a ton of the money everyone pays goes to pay for the middle men in the most inefficient way imaginable.

As far as who the freeloaders are I draw the line on people who choose not to be covered-- not on people who cannot afford coverage.

But I did not enter into discussion with you on this point anyway as I dont care of you support UHC or not. I entered into it because you implied that paying premiums is nothing like paying for other people care when actually it is exactly that.

 

[oleDirtyBast4rd]

If you agree that people who choose to opt out of health care should receive no emergency services then we disagree on very little. People pay premiums yes, that is true, but when any kind of costly medical issue arises they take more than they have given to the system-- that is where you come in and help by paying your premiums. You are paying for other people's care already it's just that a ton of the money everyone pays goes to pay for the middle men in the most inefficient way imaginable.

As far as who the freeloaders are I draw the line on people who choose not to be covered-- not on people who cannot afford coverage.

But I did not enter into discussion with you on this point anyway as I dont care of you support UHC or not. I entered into it because you implied that paying premiums is nothing like paying for other people care when actually it is exactly that.

No, it isnt. There is a massive difference between paying into a system that you get benefit from, and freeloading on a system that you didnt pay into.

 

[franklinstower]

No, it isnt. There is a massive difference between paying into a system that you get benefit from, and freeloading on a system that you didnt pay into.

I am willing for everyone to pay into one way more efficient system so that people basically pay less in order to have the poorest among us covered I am willing to vote that into policy too.

 

[oleDirtyBast4rd]

I am willing for everyone to pay into one way more efficient system so that people basically pay less in order to have the poorest among us covered I am willing to vote that into policy too.

The rich would pay less while also subsidizing the people who dont pay at all?

 

[franklinstower]

The rich would pay less while also subsidizing the people who dont pay at all?

Yes-- if it gets voted into law and I believe it is inevitable that it will be. I know plenty of wealthy people that would vote it into law right now too.

Edit- no the rich will pay more.

 

[Prutfis]

Another healthcare thread for Greoric to go full retard. Par for the course.

 

[franklinstower]

Gotta go to bed man. It is through democracy that the rich will pay more. We will all vote and it will become the law of the land through this beautiful thing called democracy. Rich and poor alike with vote UHC into law eventually.

 

[oleDirtyBast4rd]

Yes-- if it gets voted into law and I believe it is inevitable that it will be. I know plenty of wealthy people that would vote it into law right now too.

Edit- no the rich will pay more.

So there is the problem. Explain how that is not redistribution of wealth to expect the rich to subsidize the poor. Then you have the gall to say it will save us money. Again I ask... who will it save money?

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

The entire free world has figured this out but sadly in America we have fringe conservatives and ding bat libertarians holding us all back from any real progress.

 

[oleDirtyBast4rd]

Gotta go to bed man. It is through democracy that the rich will pay more. We will all vote and it will become the law of the land through this beautiful thing called democracy. Rich and poor alike with vote UHC into law eventually.

Rule of majority isnt inherently beautiful. We also are not a democracy but a Republic. Our forefathers were smart enough to see the issues with allowing mob rule