New Shadowboxing!

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by Sano, Dec 3, 2017.

  1. Sano Brown Belt

    Sano
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    I was fired up today after watching Gaethje vs Alvarez, and dealing with that Zelenoff ripoff, so I decided to go to the gym and do some rounds. Got a few rounds of shadowboxing recorded.

    A bit more aggressive here, turned it up a notch above what I usually do. Trying to take more angles (as per @YoungCashMoney ), come forward and blend in the head movement:


    A bit more bouncy and measured here:


    Hope you guys are enjoying your Sunday, any comments and/or critique will be appreciated. I wont post vids for a little while after this one, and focus on improving from the feedback I've got in the last few weeks.
     
    #1
  2. Frode Falch Gold Belt

    Frode Falch
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    Come to norway.

    :D
     
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  3. j123 Pro Sherdogger 500-0-1

    j123
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    @Sano blew his load on the wall in the back.

    Its on
     
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  4. AndyMaBobs Purple Belt

    AndyMaBobs
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    Y'know your basement? Well right underneath that.
    I look forward to discount Zelenoff insulting your slow unexplosive technique.

    For real though, you're looking sharp, hope you fight again one day!
     
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  5. Sano Brown Belt

    Sano
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    Lol!

    Thanks man! I do feel pretty decent. I hope so too! I would smash my old self. Head is feeling better as well, but I don't know if I'll ever get completely back to baseline. It'll become clear in a little while when/if I start sparring again for real.

    Either way, improvements will be made :)
     
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  6. j123 Pro Sherdogger 500-0-1

    j123
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    [​IMG]
     
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  7. Sano Brown Belt

    Sano
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    We're going deep on this one.
     
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  8. shincheckin Green Belt

    shincheckin
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    this is just my opinion.

    I dont like how erect/upright your back is. You look a bit stiff in the lower back. For boxing, mma,muay thai, etc you should be a bit more "hunch back". take a look at this picture for comparison. Read the body language, RED is in a better position to attack, defend, etc etc. and has better balance.

    [​IMG]
     
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  9. j123 Pro Sherdogger 500-0-1

    j123
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    "I see stiffness"
     
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  10. Reyesnuthugr belt

    Reyesnuthugr
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    This is what I liked about your (shinchekin) specific fighting and shadowboxing. You don't lean straight up or backwards unlike a lot of other MT/kickboxers who almost all have a strong tendency to do that (probably due to the ease of using it while kicking).

    I cannot overstate how much more effective it makes punching (both effective reach and clean transfer of mechanical energy) when you're not leaning back or sticking straight up, but leaning forward a bit. It's a vital part of the form that kickboxers nearly always miss completely.

    Mechanically, a puncher needs to be leaning slightly (about 10-15 degrees) forward. Much more forwards than that and it starts being detrimental again by putting your face open and too close to their glove (without increasing your reach) and putting one off balance to react.

    Also I don't think an actual hunchback (bend in the back) is necessary, it's more effective if you keep it somewhat straight (for boxing) but for kicking and/or clinch I can't say, maybe it does help there.

    ----

    As for Sano, I did see him leaning forward enough for good stretches of his shadowboxing (good job), but sometimes he'd go back to standing straight up or slightly backwards, which takes the energy backwards and saps the punches of their force/reach.

    If you hit something while leaning back, your whole body is going to want to go back rather than transmit all the force the way it wants to go. If you're standing straight up, it will push you to lean back due to opposing force and there's nothing you can do about that (unless..). That's why the small lean forward is necessary when throwing all basic punches. Some specialty punches like fade away punches or retreating hooks may not have to follow this rule, but you should practice the bread and butter punches mostly, not the specialties so much until the texbook punches are solid.

    Also, how effective is tucking your chin going to be if your posture is straight up? Think about that for a few seconds. Great job though, the adjustments are minor and not difficult.

    j123 is on a troll tear, repeating things he doesn't like to hear but can't quantify either (great job on that btw, I respek your troll game). There wasn't stiffness, Sano is quite fluid even in comparison to others who wouldn't be labeled stiff. That's one of his talents.
     
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    Last edited: Dec 3, 2017
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  11. YoungCashMoney Orange Belt

    YoungCashMoney
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    Looking good, good speed and everything looks fundamentally sound. Glad ur working on the angles its a serious game changer if you can master them during real time.
     
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  12. Mik3ThaMartian White Belt

    Mik3ThaMartian
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    Yeah I thought I was the only one kinda bothered by his spinal position.... like he's just to upright and I've seen guys get caught like that with a check hook
     
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  13. Sano Brown Belt

    Sano
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    Gotta disagree with you guys there, although I appreciate the feedback! Here's my reasoning.

    While there is no doubt that I might be standing too straight sometimes and not protect my chin (the check hook is a valid point), that picture you posted @shincheckin is not something I would say is a good stance for boxing. Legs completely straight, base of support too small, head too far forward and no angle at all just hips straight on, so a big target.

    Both stances, being further back with a more upright posture, or being more "hunched" over with shoulderblade protracted has their pros and cons in the moment. When being hunched over, your chin is protected more by your shoulders and you can be less vulnerable to overhands and hooks, at the same time your face is closer to the target and easier to hit with straight shots and to keep at the end of their punches. Personally, I like fighting someone like that more, unless they are killers on the inside.

    With a more upright posture, you have to be more diligent and aware of the overhands and hooks and you can be more vulnurable to them, but your face is further back, harder to hit and you have more time to react and see punches coming. In regards to chin position, it's actually more natural to tuck the chin with your sternum raised (chest up), biomechanically, compared to hunching over. The range thing is a wash I'd say, actually in the end you might have better range with a straighter posture as long as you can extend properly (given that his head is much closer to your fist than the other way around).

    In the end it depends on the style, the matchup and the fighter. Looking at the best contemporary boxers, GGG, Canelo, Kovalev and especially Garcia have a more forward posture, while Mayweather, Errol Spence, Rigondeaux, Lomachenko and especially Crawford has a more upright style. This is generalising, because the best fighters are either those that can implement the strengths of their stances the best, OR, switch and vary their stance (which most of the greats do). Stance in reality should be a fluid thing, as long as it's sensible.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    What you need to be able to do however if you want to stand like I am, is either be very sharp on the outside and excellent at using your feet for range, think Wonderboy, Machida, Conor, Darren Till in MMA (though they are all weaker on the inside), or be really good at protecting your chin when punching and using your hips well to crouch, slip, roll and move on the inside when you have to, like the boxers above. I definitely need to get better at all of that, AND tucking my chin, which is what I'm working on. But I like the style. I have much more control, my vision in clearer, I punch straighter, I can move in and out. I am however starting to tuck my chin a little more and not be too straight up. I could do with bending my legs more as well and having more weight shifted to the rear hip, but my ROM is pretty terrible and my right knee and hip can give me issues sometimes if I load that side excessively.

    Oleksandr Usyk is a boxer who stands very straight, bounces a lot in and out and pays for it pretty often. He's vulnurable to a lot of punches that the guys above are not, mainly because he simply doesn't use his hips or crouch at all.
     
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    Last edited: Dec 4, 2017
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  14. Sano Brown Belt

    Sano
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    Thanks man, the angles after getting my combinations off really hit home in my head somehow. I will be using the 1-2, pivot to the right and lead hook, or 1-2-3, pivot to the right and lead hook also! Just getting better at moving to my right (which I am not good at) and having my feet under me more when I move.
     
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    Last edited: Dec 4, 2017
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  15. shincheckin Green Belt

    shincheckin
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    @Sano

    yup to each his own, im not a boxer lol

    check this stuff out I found as well from the expertboxing channel

    [​IMG]

    I would still say your stance is a bit more erect/upright than the picture below of "boxing stance" but everyones body type is different, so if it works for you, than thats whats best for you.

    [​IMG]

    glad you mentioned GGG as he was exactly who I was thinking of referencing for you, but you were already on it ;)
     
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    Last edited: Dec 4, 2017
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  16. theranch White Belt

    theranch
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    other people have already mentioned it but you are very upright.
    you don't have to be 'Hunched' but throwing 4 punch combinations with your head hanging up in the air dead on the center line is begging for trouble.
    Variety of punches is good and your feet are pretty solid and you use them well for the right cross.
    couple of times you are throwing a slap instead of a left hook because your elbow is down but not a constant issue.
    If i was you my concern would be head movement, it looks very rushed and awkward, always the same pattern and rarely in an actually useful position. have you ever worked on it/ do you have some hip issues?
    you move from your back but without any foot/hip engagement so that while it may feel to you like you are moving your head the actual effect is pretty minimal in terms of getting out of the way of punches as your head is only a few centimeters from where it started (doesn't have to be a huge movement but enough to not get hit) and if someone were to jab with you, you would probably come off worse.

    For sure not meant to be bashing you i think it's awesome that you want to improve and share your progress with us! it's just easier for me to focus on short constructive points.

    Cheers
     
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  17. j123 Pro Sherdogger 500-0-1

    j123
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    @Sano stands very upright because he's actually a 5'2 manlet. when he stands erects with the right angles, he looks over 6'

    It has nothing to do with fighting whatsoever, he's been duping you guys for months now.
     
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  18. Mik3ThaMartian White Belt

    Mik3ThaMartian
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    Well I wasn't saying that it wasn't wrong it's just I've seen some people get dropped like that who were newer ... but I've seen a lot of people succeed being straight up but it just bothers me because one lucky punch and put you in for a bad time plus I'm 5'9 155 or 160 I see myself as small so my stance reflects how i view myself small... but I love doing how fluid your right hands and pivots were man let's just agree to disagree
     
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  19. Mik3ThaMartian White Belt

    Mik3ThaMartian
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    I take what johnny from expertboxing says with a grain of salt because he's contradicted himself a number of times but he still has some pretty good stuff
     
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  20. MaxMMA Blue Belt

    MaxMMA
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    The stance looks fine to me, its your rigidness that is making you look sloppy. Loosen up, lead with your hips on those punches and over exaggerate the rotation of the hips in your punches because right now it looks like all arms. You're getting next to no extension on those punches.

    SLOW DOWN and work on your form. You have tons of unnecessary movement. Not sure why everyone is on this shadow boxing speed thing right now but you guys are going to throw your shoulders out or hyperextend your elbows.

    You're video looks similar to YCMs, except he was doing this really weird thing with his rock back that looked like it could snap his spine if he went a little harder.
     
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