New Ken Primola Free DVD offer - Be Aware

Rookie said:
for those that got the email, can you save the site as a PDF? I would be interested to see the differences between the sites we all get. Part of Lloyds marketing plan is to have different landing pages and different verbiage to determine which is the most successful. This is strictly for my own curiosity.
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This is not unique to LI. Other industries have started doing this a long time ago. The first time I've heard of this was 5-6 years ago. Having different landing pages and associating those pages with Google Analytics tells you which marketing plan works. One of the easiest way to prove marketing works is to show statistics, which Google Analytics does a wonderful job at.

LI has the smarts to take existing successful marketing plans in other industries and applying it directly into the relatively young and growing MMA gym industry. In this case, being the First Mover has clearly paid off for Lloyd. Good for him.

Most of what you're paying for LI system is already available when you do simple Google searches. There are a lot of online marketing system that may be cheaper as well. LI is smart enough to "package" the contents and sell the packaged content targetted at the MMA industry. Good for him.

What sucks for you if you're a gym owner is that you do not have the experience that Lloyd has in the MMA industry. So you just have to "take his word for it" because he's deemed as a success story in this industry.

I would have to say that if I was a gym owner and not having gotten into the business that I'm in now, I'm more prone to buy into the LI marketing system.
 
EGDM said:
This is the kind of shit that disposable credit card numbers were invented for. It's a sad reality, but I don't buy anything online with my primary credit card number (except from AAA major retailers). For any kind of "free trial" I have my bank issue a temporary number with a $1 limit and 1 month expiration just in case something shady happens. Works like a charm.
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That is a very simple idea that never really occurred to me before for whatever reason. I know my credit card company offers these temporary numbers. Good idea.
 
In before the apologetic, it was all an accident, email me and I'll fix it backpedal/PR job.
 
Rookie said:
That's because you bought the actual product. The DVD in this case is not the product they are selling. What they are selling is the online membership, just in a very indirect way.

for those that got the email, can you save the site as a PDF? I would be interested to see the differences between the sites we all get. Part of Lloyds marketing plan is to have different landing pages and different verbiage to determine which is the most successful. This is strictly for my own curiosity.
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Could of had me fooled lol...they talk about the membership site maybe 10% of the sales copy. They are mainly talking about the DVD. Reading it...it makes me think the DVD is the main product not the membership site.
 
GJJNY said:
In before the apologetic, it was all an accident, email me and I'll fix it backpedal/PR job.
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I bet it was the same hackers that made Jordon send that email with all the mean cuss words he would never say.
 
its seems that people directly under lloyd or close to lloyd do not do this automatically sign you up for shit when buying a dvd. i consider these guys like scully and avellan. lloyd, scully, avellan never do this shit as far as i know. whether you agree with the marketing or not is different story.

it seems like some people are attending lloyd seminars but fucking with the recipe.
the dudes that are in the lovato thing are doing a lot of the lloyd marketing, but ALSO adding this auto enrollment to a website for a dvd that you are PAYING for.


and to the dude who keeps yapping "read the small print", the fact is that NO ONE expects to be auto enrolled when BUYING a dvd. this is a bullshit practice. kind of sucks when you have to read every word just to buy a fucking dvd.
now, granted if you are getting a FREE dvd, then being skeptical and reading the fine print is a necessity because you get nothing for free.
 
Lloyd Irvin and anyone following "his system" are doing normal direct marketing. This is all fairly standardized: long, over the top squeeze/landing pages with tons of testimonials, A/B splits for tracking response rates, autoresponder email campaigns, upselling, etc. Honestly, these tactics work pretty well, even if they rub some people the wrong way. They don't bother me, but I have had to create a ton of email filters to deal with all the crap everyone sends me now.

Marketers using these systems usually end up claiming to have invented it so they can sell it too. Irvin does, Matt Furey does, and I've seen Ken Primola moving in that direction too. When I first learned internet marketing, this was already an old method, and people were always selling their "special" training CDs on how to do it. I remember one of Lloyd's students telling me I was wrong and that Master Lloyd had invented it all himself, which was cute. I'm sure he has his own take on things but this nothing new outside of BJJ/MMA.

Looking at Ken's site, I thought it could be more clear that you're signing up for a subscription. I was also looking for it since people were complaining here. Doesn't seem shady to me, but I can see it confusing and upsetting a lot of people, which isn't a good if customer service is a priority.
 
Nomad Nemesis said:
its seems that people directly under lloyd or close to lloyd do not do this automatically sign you up for shit when buying a dvd. i consider these guys like scully and avellan. lloyd, scully, avellan never do this shit as far as i know. whether you agree with the marketing or not is different story.

it seems like some people are attending lloyd seminars but fucking with the recipe.
the dudes that are in the lovato thing are doing a lot of the lloyd marketing, but ALSO adding this auto enrollment to a website for a dvd that you are PAYING for.


and to the dude who keeps yapping "read the small print", the fact is that NO ONE expects to be auto enrolled when BUYING a dvd. this is a bullshit practice. kind of sucks when you have to read every word just to buy a fucking dvd.
now, granted if you are getting a FREE dvd, then being skeptical and reading the fine print is a necessity because you get nothing for free.
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The dvd IS free. Or 1 dollar for shipping. It says its free several times on the page. Also, when you go to checkout, it clearly shows you are also getting a membership. Actually, there are two products in your cart when you go to check out. The first is the dollar shipping charge. The second says "Smart BJJ Exclusive Membership and FREE DVD."
No, the dvd isnt listed first with the membership hidden in small print. The membership is listed first.

If you got 'suckered' by this I dont feel for you. In fact, If you send me your email and credit card info, I will send you a letter explaining how not to get scammed online FREE of charge. In addition, I will charge you several hundred dollars, for some other emails telling you how you can scam others yourself!
 
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Simple rule of thumb, don't ever give your CC number in connection with anything that's free. Ever. Ever.

If they say it is free but that they need your credit card for x, y, or z, they are just a goddamned liar. Run.

It disappoints me that people still buy into this stuff.
 
Zankou said:
Simple rule of thumb, don't ever give your CC number in connection with anything that's free. Ever. Ever.

If they say it is free but that they need your credit card for x, y, or z, they are just a goddamned liar. Run.

It disappoints me that people still buy into this stuff.
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Honesty I agree...the only reason they do the free DVD thing is so then can get your account info in another system...They do not actually know your card #'s because the shopping cart is encrypted but they are still using it to get your payment information into the membership system.

If they wanted to do a TRUE FREE offer..then offer the whole DVD as a download...then they don't incur any costs.

I like Ken..and we've shot the shit a lot...just saying...the way people are marketing in the BJJ community as of late sucks imo...

I use direct marketing and I will always use it because it is a great way of advertising. But I'll do it in my own way and pick the things I've learned from all of the sources out there that I feel best suit me and my values.

I know I'll still piss some people off, but that goes with not being able to please everyone which I personally am not concerned with.
 
argg, made a long post and it timed up:) In any event. Its all good, people can say as they wish. Me and Dan the BJJnerd are offering a free dvd with 30 days on our member site. No scam. and after 30 days if people stay on they will be billed. they will also be notified of this and are already and will be again when i send the dvd with a letter talking about the site.

No one is forced to sign up or stay on. In fact, I will lose money on the free shipping and the making of the dvd. We are both very serious about drilling and making others better at bjj. Thats really all i can say. I see some people talking about lloyd or something. Man, I was not a fan of Lloyd until i went to his school and met his guys and gals, top notch athlets and human beings. These people are serious about BJJ. I am so serious that I am training hard just to be able to train there again and make it worthwhile.

As for the site, smartbjj.com its going to be great and its cheap as hell. And I guarantee great testimonials at the end of the day. Sheesh, if people don't like it they get a free dvd and 30 days and no hassle, they can opt out of it, thats pretty killer imo. And its way more than just techniques like many sites out there. dan studies bjj stats, i look at body mechanics and bring college wrestling background into the mix and will drill stuff similarly. I always felt many bjj schools were too laid back personally. Like drill, talk, drill, talk, thats not how wrestling was for me and i just barely survived. There are things like this lacking in our industry and we have methods that can help anybody- cutting edge stuff imo. Im not upset by anyone here talking crap. that is your right. I did not want to spam this site with my offer out of respect. But to say its a scam, not sure what thats about. More like a steal. You get some great knowledge free, if you stay on you get greta knowledge for 37 bucks a month. I don't go to bars much but i assume that is like 4 beers, lol. In any event, if anyone has any questions for me shoot me a message.

peace, Ken Primola
 
dirtypablo said:
The dvd IS free. Or 1 dollar for shipping. It says its free several times on the page. Also, when you go to checkout, it clearly shows you are also getting a membership. Actually, there are two products in your cart when you go to check out. The first is the dollar shipping charge. The second says "Smart BJJ Exclusive Membership and FREE DVD."
No, the dvd isnt listed first with the membership hidden in small print. The membership is listed first.

If you got 'suckered' by this I dont feel for you. In fact, If you send me your email and credit card info, I will send you a letter explaining how not to get scammed online FREE of charge. In addition, I will charge you several hundred dollars, for some other emails telling you how you can scam others yourself!
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i think we are agreeing on the free/1$ part. i am just disagreeing on when you spend $149 for a dvd set and get this auto sub to a website bs part.
 
Nomad, I was an affiliate for the Lovato DVD launch. I was not a partner of that launch. I am not sure how that went down because i was just an affiliate, someone who promotes and has nothing to do with the sale or adcopy.

But for my site, you can bet your bottom dollar people are not going to say I am scamming them. And it has a guarantee and all steps in place to avoid anything remotely like a scam or anything like that.
 
tf said:
Great vid. Thanks for sharing. What a crock of crap.
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Crock of crap that people are shelling out real money for. If you boil it down to results, it delivers.
 
deadlizard said:
Crock of crap that people are shelling out real money for. If you boil it down to results, it delivers.
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I keep hearing this justification over and over again. Honestly, it bothers me a lot.

Just because some things get results doesn't mean they are right. That is a very dangerous road to start going down.

There are a lot of positive aspects to what Lloyd has done overall. I think he gets a little too much credit on the internet, but he is an internet marketer so that is inevitable I guess. He has helped the spread of some good ideas about training, and he has put together a pretty awesome team.

He is also responsible (perhaps indirectly) for some pretty shitty trends in BJJ as well. As noted earlier by some guys that have been around, there has been an undeniable trend in BJJ towards shittier and shittier business practices. Whether that is directly due to Lloyd or is more guys who went to Lloyd's seminars taking things too far on their own, the one common thread is always Lloyd.

The thing that creeps me out the most is the 3%er brainwashing thing. I wonder when it's going to become a 4%er because it seems like everyone is a 3%er these days -- at least everyone who goes to a Lloyd seminar magically becomes one over the course of a few days. Some of the slogans that are repeated and even written on the walls like "3%ers are immune to criticism" are bizarre and freaky. It's basically brainwashing to tell you not to listen to others outside of the group.

Anytime people start believing that they are above all criticism by virtue of being part of a select group, bad things start happening. That's exactly what's happening, it is noticeable, and if it keeps going this way, it is going to end in absolute disaster. It's like watching a train wreck in slow motion. I got to see this kind of stuff happen in Karate over a period of about fifteen years, and it's terrible.

Every time I hear people defend clearly shitty stuff with "Well, it is working, so don't hate" I cringe. And I'm cringing more and more every day the way things are going.
 
Oh and deadlizard I don't mean to imply that you are using that as a justification. I just quoted you because it was recent and a lot of people seem to use it that way.
 
Balto said:
Oh and deadlizard I don't mean to imply that you are using that as a justification. I just quoted you because it was recent and a lot of people seem to use it that way.
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No, I understand what you're saying. I'm just putting out a reason why sherdogger hate will amount to almost nothing for these guys.

Unfortunately, business are evaluated by results. The way to measure results is through sales numbers. You don't make money by being popular on sherdog.

Unfortunately, that's the way it will be going foward, just like BJJ McDojos.
 
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