Netflix: The Untold History of the United States - Oliver Stone

[BVG]

This was dropped in on Canada's Netflix. It's a small documentary series regarding a telling of major historic events but not entirely told in the way American history books detail the events.

I just finished the first part which detailed world war 2 and Russia's involvement and influence to end the war.

Pretty interesting stuff, I recommend it.

Episode 1

 

[NelmarksGhost]

Cliffs, or a few youtube clips would be nice. Sounds interesting.

 

[USA!USA!]

Sounds interesting. Any examples of the differences they call out?

 

[BVG]

Cliffs, or a few youtube clips would be nice. Sounds interesting.

Added link to episode 1.

I'd say that the United States more passive involvement over all with regards to WW2, and Russia's help with Japan that signaled their surrender (and not the bomb dropped on Nagasaki) would most likely be a major difference in history story telling. Theirs others all over the place. But I grew up in Canada so I'm not even sure I'm taught the same things you are.

I was not aware at just how many casualties the Russian army sustained.

 

[klnOmega]

Added link to episode 1.

I'd say that the United States more passive involvement over all with regards to WW2, and Russia's help with Japan that signaled their surrender would most likely be a major difference in history story telling.

I was not aware at just how many casualties the Russian army sustained.

 

[BVG]

LOL.

Exactly that. Except it goes into detail on all the major events, how the United States reacted and how Russia reacted.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

I watched his HBO documentary series and he had some interesting viewpoints of the early 1900s, but when it got into WWII and afterward it became laughably bad liberal propaganda, with sprinkles of truth added to the top, which the most effective propaganda does.

Basically, what HBO tried to do with recent events with 'The Newsroom,' Oliver Stone's documentary series tried to do with to the last century.

 

[Rational Poster]

Added link to episode 1.

I'd say that the United States more passive involvement over all with regards to WW2, and Russia's help with Japan that signaled their surrender (and not the bomb dropped on Nagasaki) would most likely be a major difference in history story telling. Theirs others all over the place. But I grew up in Canada so I'm not even sure I'm taught the same things you are.

I was not aware at just how many casualties the Russian army sustained.

This is all pretty much common knowledge to anyone with more than a glancing knowledge of WW2 and the closing events.

Historians are not even sure anymore if we needed to nuke Japan at all. The firebombing campaign was immensely effective and cheaper in comparison as the majority of Japanese civil engineering was not designed with sustained aerial bombardment in mind.

It was a very chaotic series of events near the end, especially within Japan, and much of the documentation that might shed light on these events were either destroyed deliberately or in firebombings.

What we do know for certain is that elements of the Japanese military government, including the Emperor, were seriously considering surrender if not before the first bomb dropped, certainly after it.

 

[BVG]

This is all pretty much common knowledge to anyone with more than a glancing knowledge of WW2 and the closing events.

Historians are not even sure anymore if we needed to nuke Japan at all. The firebombing campaign was immensely effective and cheaper in comparison as the majority of Japanese civil engineering was not designed with sustained aerial bombardment in mind.

It was a very chaotic series of events near the end, especially within Japan, and much of the documentation that might shed light on these events were either destroyed deliberately or in firebombings.

What we do know for certain is that elements of the Japanese military government, including the Emperor, were seriously considering surrender if not before the first bomb dropped, certainly after it.

The documentary suggests they fought on and did not surrender even after the second bomb dropped in Nagasaki. It was only when Russia came in from the north that they realized they were fucked and called it quits.

But it does suggest that their were major push back to dropping the bombs because as you said, their structures were not designed to withstand such bombardment of the fire bombs. But the United States was more about showing the world it's power than it was to getting Japan to surrender.

 

[NelmarksGhost]

This is all pretty much common knowledge to anyone with more than a glancing knowledge of WW2 and the closing events.

This. Although, most educated only in a US high school know little about the war other then we fought the nazis and won.

 

[Diamond Jim]

I saw this a couple years ago on Showtime. It's pretty well done even with his biases in there.

 

[Rational Poster]

The documentary suggests they fought on and did not surrender even after the second bomb dropped in Nagasaki. It was only when Russia came in from the north that they realized they were fucked and called it quits.

But it does suggest that their were major push back to dropping the bombs because as you said, their structures were not designed to withstand such bombardment of the fire bombs. But the United States was more about showing the world it's power than it was to getting Japan to surrender.

The fought on, only because the army and populace was so warped by propaganda.

What I am talking about is the discussion of the internal hierarchy during that time.

 

[JudoThrowFiasco]

This is all pretty much common knowledge to anyone with more than a glancing knowledge of WW2 and the closing events.

Historians are not even sure anymore if we needed to nuke Japan at all. The firebombing campaign was immensely effective and cheaper in comparison as the majority of Japanese civil engineering was not designed with sustained aerial bombardment in mind.

It was a very chaotic series of events near the end, especially within Japan, and much of the documentation that might shed light on these events were either destroyed deliberately or in firebombings.

What we do know for certain is that elements of the Japanese military government, including the Emperor, were seriously considering surrender if not before the first bomb dropped, certainly after it.

The US knew it could take mainland Japan and Tokyo -- they really didn't need to go nuclear despite the argument that it saved more US lives.

But, the other side is that they HAD to show the Russians they had the bomb (capabilities) in possession and were willing to use it. The US knew Russia and themselves would be the new bi-hegemony of the world and that Russia could also have access to Nazi information and perhaps their own version of the Szilárd letter.

The 2nd piece is that Manhattan project was the most cost extensive venture in world history to that point in time and the backers wanted some sort of ROI / demonstration for their dollars. That is in part why they used Little Boy (gun-type projectile reaction design) first, because they never tested it with the trinity demonstration and they wanted to see what the results were.

Fat Man was overkill -- but it did seem to motivate the emperor to concede.

 

[Rational Poster]

The US knew it could take mainland Japan and Tokyo -- they really didn't need to go nuclear despite the argument that it saved more US lives.

But, the other side is that they HAD to show the Russians they had the bomb (capabilities) in possession and were willing to use it. The US knew Russia and themselves would be the new bi-hegemony of the world and that Russia could also have access to Nazi information and perhaps their own version of the Szilárd letter.

The 2nd piece is that Manhattan project was the most cost extensive venture in world history to that point in time and the backers wanted some sort of ROI / demonstration for their dollars. That is in part why they used Little Boy (gun-type projectile reaction design) first, because they never tested it with the trinity demonstration and they wanted to see what the results were.

Fat Man was overkill -- but it did seem to motivate the emperor to concede.

No doubt in my mind that we used the nukes because we just spent so much goddamn money on them and people wanted to see them in action, not for any practical reason like saving lives or even showing off to the Russians.

We could have very easily just continued the traditional bombing campaign with the same effect, or even better, for a lot less money. IIRC, the death toll from the Tokyo fire bombings far exceeds both nukes.

 

[KnightTemplar]

Added link to episode 1.

I'd say that the United States more passive involvement over all with regards to WW2, and Russia's help with Japan that signaled their surrender (and not the bomb dropped on Nagasaki) would most likely be a major difference in history story telling. Theirs others all over the place. But I grew up in Canada so I'm not even sure I'm taught the same things you are.

I was not aware at just how many casualties the Russian army sustained.

Russia sustained the heaviest total(military and civilians)casualties of any nation in WWII. The exact number is still a matter of debate, but probably north of 19,000,000.

Ironically, today Russia has more neo-Nazis than any other country; more than 50,000.

 

[JudoThrowFiasco]

No doubt in my mind that we used the nukes because we just spent so much goddamn money on them and people wanted to see them in action, not for any practical reason like saving lives or even showing off to the Russians.

We could have very easily just continued the traditional bombing campaign with the same effect, or even better, for a lot less money. IIRC, the death toll from the Tokyo fire bombings far exceeds both nukes.

Well we definelty did need to show the Russians as a message of "dont fuck with us after this is over" and the US knew Kurchatov and Beria were leading a nuclear program in russia in 43'. So from that standpoint, there was a practical reasoning behind it.

 

[Ice That Jaw]

Oliver Stone on the Bill Mauer show is almost as entertaining as his movies.

 

[VivaRevolution]

This was dropped in on Canada's Netflix. It's a small documentary series regarding a telling of major historic events but not entirely told in the way American history books detail the events.

I just finished the first part which detailed world war 2 and Russia's involvement and influence to end the war.

Pretty interesting stuff, I recommend it.

Episode 1

Good watch, everyone should check it out. It has some bias, but it also has plenty of information most have never been exposed to.

Watch all 10 episodes, it effected my world view when I watched it years ago.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

So why is it not on Netflix Murica? This is about Murica. Who made the decision to block it?

 

[MadSquabbles500]

Russia sustained the heaviest total(military and civilians)casualties of any nation in WWII. The exact number is still a matter of debate, but probably north of 19,000,000.

Ironically, today Russia has more neo-Nazis than any other country; more than 50,000.

I thought China suffered more losses. They were fighting longer.