My cousin wants to teach me Wing Chun | Page 5

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Thorgrim, Mar 20, 2017.

  1. JosephDredd Silver Belt

    JosephDredd
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    Personal experience from bouncing. Yeah, there were giant buff monsters kicking ass. But do you know who 90% of the people fighting were? Just random assholes who got some alcohol in them and decided they needed to start throwing punches. And their punches were as dangerous as you would expect.

    That's amazing! You go into a bar of physically dangerous people and you might be endangered physically? Fucking unreal. We've got to give you some kind of scientific prize. You must agree that if you go into a bar full of average people you're likely to see average people fighting without skill. And I can tell you from personal experience the number of physical beasts getting into drunken brawls are not disproportinately higher than anyone else.

    Learn how to punch, learn how to kick, practise those things and you'll have an advantage over a random asshole on the street. I don't know how you can deny that.
     
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  2. BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

    BJJ_Rage
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    That's amazing! You go into a bar of physically dangerous people and you might be endangered physically? Fucking unreal. We've got to give you some kind of scientific prize. You must agree that if you go into a bar full of average people you're likely to see average people fighting without skill. And I can tell you from personal experience the number of physical beasts getting into drunken brawls are not disproportinately higher than anyone else.

    Learn how to punch, learn how to kick, practise those things and you'll have an advantage over a random asshole on the street. I don't know how you can deny that.[/QUOTE]

    ou are getting those % are out no where. I dont know about where you live, but down here, people looking for fights are normally people who are involve in fights, violent people is violent, some are dorks drunks and some are just people who enjoy fighting. Assuming those people cant fight because they are random and dont train MA is pretty silly. There are people who can fight there re people who cant, a physical strong athletic dude with willing to fuck someone up is no joke, specially if you are not a violent physical strong person.

    A flury of punches work, but standing with the ridiculous wing chung stance and trying to machine gun strikes is ridiculous to say the least. IT doesnt work, and you ahve no tape of it working because one reason, probably no one pulled it off.

    Leaning how to punch and kick is important of course, it will probably give you and advantage, what im saying is that just because some people dont train dont mean they cant fight. You can punch and kick all you want, if you cant stop a tackle and you are facing a strong dude, you are probably going to end up on the ground, and if you cant grapple, well you are getting fucked up. that is the reality of life.
     
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  3. JosephDredd Silver Belt

    JosephDredd
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    Around here, very few people go looking for fights compared to the amount of people who get into fights because of alcohol + upset feelings.

    It works pretty damn great against some random asshole who doesn't know what he's doing. Which is most of them.

    What the fuck? Lots of people have knocked out people with an aggressive flurry of punches. If you don't have any experience with wing chun sparring yourself, there is lots of footage of wing chun people sparring on the internet. Check out the episode of Human Weapon where they drop in on a wing chun school.

    Wing chun is most definitely one of the more effective forms of kung fu. Not as effective as training in boxing/kickboxing/etc, but it certainly should not be lumped into a category with the bullshit arts like Aikido and Tai Chi.

    What I'm saying is that, for the majority of the population, that does mean they can't fight. And I haven't seen anything in my experience to suggest that the people who do know how to fight start a disproportionately large amount of street/bar fights.
     
    #83
  4. BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

    BJJ_Rage
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    human weapon? really? , any bumb with zero knowledge of any MA lunches a flury of punches, but a wing chung straight flury of punches? punches are punches, if you throw a lot of punches at once, well thats a flury, but when talking about wing chun and all its theory, well, try to find a single video of it working, of some wing chung dude standing up and throwing a clean flury that actually looks anything diffeernt than 2 guys just swinging to the fence.

    there absolutely nothing stopping a wing chun dude jumping in the cage and performing one wing chun clean flury of punches.... guess why we have not ever seen one in action, I mean, it sounds logic, you stand in front of your opponent he throws a punches and there comes a trillon punches in a sec, just like they practice every single day of their life.... never happened bro.
     
    #84
  5. JosephDredd Silver Belt

    JosephDredd
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    Are you saying that someone who throws thousands of punches in training and is taught to throw them fast and first is not going to have an advantage over some untrained asshole?
    I don't care how wing-chunny they look in your eyes, you can't tell me that's not a significant advantage. Wing chun has strikes and counter-strikes that work great against untrained people.

    And are you saying that Wing Chun is as useless as Aikido?
    Because you cannot tell me that is true.

    I ask these two specific questions because they address what I've been saying on this thread.

    I never said wing chun guys were knocking out pro fighters.
     
    #85
  6. BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

    BJJ_Rage
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    I will take a rubgy player over a wing chun guy every single day of my life.

    is wing chun as useless as aikido? no, nothing is.

    Not all mma events are full with pro fghters, but even in regional shows we have not seen anything remotely close to what a wing chun fighter should look like.... here...





    you got a whole series of wing chung guys fighting full contact there... now you tell me its worth to spend hundreds of hours doing whatever they do to basically end up throwing sloppy slaps to the air and basically grappling...
     
    #86
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  7. JosephDredd Silver Belt

    JosephDredd
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    Would you take the average random joe over a wing chun fighter? Where do you live where so many huge physical specimens are getting into fights that you can't imagine any other scenario?

    Well, then what are we arguing about? I said it wasn't as useless as Aikido and it's not that effective against trained fighters and probably not that effective against your teeming hordes of rugby players.

    Seriously, at this point we're not arguing about anything I actually said.

    What did you see in this video that you felt it proved your point? The guy in the white shirt is the wing chun guy, yes? The guy who executed a takedown he's clearly trained and got dominant position in a street fight? Seriously, what were you thinking when you watched that and thought, "A-ha! An example of how totally ineffective it is!" And if you're going to say it didn't look wing chunny enough for you, you should notice that the other guy didn't look very tae kwon doey, either. Are you saying Tae Kwon Do is hours of wasted training, too?

    Again, I'm not sure why you posted this video. I've seen it before. Did you notice that this video was called Wing Chun vs Karate 10? Because there are at least 9 other wing chun vs karate matches at this school and some of those were won by the wing chun fighters. Also, did you notice that those arcing slaps didn't look like karate punches? Does that mean they weren't karate-y enough for you and that karate is wasted training for punching someone in the face? And did you notice the karate guy turn his back and run when the wing chun guy swarmed him?

    Yes, I am saying it can be. I'd like to hear your thoughts on my responses to your videos. Particularly why you thought a video of a WC guy executing a takedown he trains in his art and raining punches from above in a street fight (against a trained opponent) proves that wing chun is ineffective. I'd also like to know what you think about posting that second video now knowing that there were fights in that event that were won by WC guys.
     
    #87
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2017
  8. trustdoesntrust Green Belt

    trustdoesntrust
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    Parries, arm traps, slips, stance switches, etc. are some of the hardest things to master in any martial art, always risky because aggression, strength, and recklessness will blow up weak defense. But these Wing Chun guys seem to have this puzzling hubris about counter-attacking-- they stick their heads out, drop their hands, and take awkward steps; all things you shouldn't do and probably wouldn't do if you've truly practiced against explosive attacks.
     
    #88
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2017
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  9. BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

    BJJ_Rage
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    Ive seen them all... The only fight that was remotely close to some technical win by let's say, wing Chun technique was the n1... The whole rest was just a slap face, all 9 of them... Regarding the one saying wing Chun vs tkd, I think the wc won, but not by some super flurry of punches that was good old school yard wrestling he was just the tougher dude, you don't need to be doing a trillon hours of chinsao or whatever it's call to grab your oppoent shirt and throwing on the ground, that was no judo throw by the way... And wing Chun does not incorporate grappling... My point, crossfit will make you a much effective fighter than wing Chun.

    I live in Paraguay, just happened to play rugby some and the environment I grew well got t meet a lot of them...
     
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  10. JosephDredd Silver Belt

    JosephDredd
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    Watch this. Especially the first fight.

    Wing Chun does train trips and throws. Which you saw in that video.
     
    #90
  11. BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

    BJJ_Rage
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    That's the first one, that actually looked fine...

    Regarding the throw in the last vid, come on, did that look like a technical throw? Or anything remotely practice?
     
    #91
  12. JosephDredd Silver Belt

    JosephDredd
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    Yes. have you never seen that throw before? It's the same one that judo guy did on Jake Shields in the UFC and the same one Lyoto did on a bunch of guys. It's a real throw that several martial arts practice, including Wing Chun.
     
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  13. BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

    BJJ_Rage
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    Don't know which one are you talking about, but the one I'm talking about is the one the wc guy grabs his opponents shirt and basically drags him to the ground ...
     
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  14. JosephDredd Silver Belt

    JosephDredd
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    The one where he plants his leg behind his opponent's legs and pulls him backwards? That is a throw practised by many arts.
     
    #94
  15. BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

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    its a school yard some sort of osoto trip whatever... but I guess you can call it a td if you like.
     
    #95
  16. JosephDredd Silver Belt

    JosephDredd
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    I don't understand why you're being so stubborn here. You've been super gracious and informative when I have BJJ questions so I don't really want to fight with you on the internet, but it's clearly a throw he practise and he pulled it off in a street fight, which is pretty fucking awesome. Just because you've never seen it before doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

    And the reason you've probably never seen it before is because it's used to attack people in sideways stances, which you don't see much of in BJJ, judo or MMA. Gracie BJJ and Muay Thai have different variations of this throw because they're attacking more squared stances.

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    I know you're not doing picture perfect techniques when adrenalin hits you in a street fight. The guy pulled off a move he practised in a street fight against a trained opponent... that's pretty fucking sweet.
     
    #96
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2017
  17. BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

    BJJ_Rage
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    dude we just have to agree to disagree, what akiyama did is quite different, specially in the execution, but move s extremely popular anywehre, even in schoolyard.

    I just dont agree with an art which spends most of its training doing chia sao or some crap like that and supposed to be fucking lethal ends up mostly like a horrible slapping fest except one dude that actually looked good. MA shouldnt be liket that.

    there are thousands of bjj payers in the world, most suck, but even the suckiest ones can perform a technique live that resembles their training, and its all over the internet. You can say that about pretty much every single full contact MA, the same cannot be said about you know wc kung fu aikido etc etc.

    Im not trying to pick a fight or anything, at all.. we cool man. not everyone has to agree on everything.
     
    #97
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2017
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  18. biscuitsbrah Black Belt

    biscuitsbrah
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    lol no offense man but if you come to Hawaii the average street fighter would knock both those guys unconscious at the same time.

    I'm gonna go with experienced street fighter > wing chun most of the time imo. I can guarantee the bar brawlers in the U.K. + Ireland probably ko wing chun guys too
     
    #98
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  19. JosephDredd Silver Belt

    JosephDredd
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    They hit hard, they hit fast, they hit first. Those are great attributes for self-defense. Kung fu is in a bad state and it's one of the few effective styles, outside of san shou / san da.

     
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