My bitterness towards modern gaming vs gaming 10 years ago, summed up in this article

[Treeloy]

Lol is nothing like warcraft.

 

[Turtlejuice]

https://www.theverge.com/2016/3/1/11141082/what-video-games-to-play-in-2016

...except the article lists the differences as positives, when in many ways they are negatives too.


How is DLC cash grabbing a positive?

And this one triggers me to no end....but DOTA, League of Legends, etc....it's just Warcraft 3 man. And I enjoyed Warcraft 3 much more. I'm completely baffled by the explosion. When the hell are we getting Warcraft 4?

DLC allows developers to add content to games, whereas before once they were launched, that's all you got until a sequel.

DOTA and LOL are not Warcraft 3. Completely different games.

 

[RhinoRush]

I just play old games. Problem solved.

 

[Squall Leonhart]

DLC allows developers to add content to games, whereas before once they were launched, that's all you got until a sequel.

DOTA and LOL are not Warcraft 3. Completely different games.

Am I mistaken about this:

DOTA was created in the Warcraft 3 engine. In the map editor that comes with the game.

It was played on battle.net under the Warcraft 3 banner.

LOL developers more or less were a brigade of former W3 developers/programmers.

All of these games have similar top down views, graphics, art styles, and emphasize heroes.

 

[Turtlejuice]

Am I mistaken about this:

DOTA was created in the Warcraft 3 engine. In the map editor that comes with the game.

It was played on battle.net under the Warcraft 3 banner.

LOL developers more or less were a brigade of former W3 developers/programmers.

All of these games have similar top down views, graphics, art styles, and emphasize heroes.

It was a custom mission for WC3. It wasn't WC3. Saying DOTA is WC3, is the same as saying CS:GO is Half-life. LOL founders/developers were people that worked on the DOTA custom mission, not on WC3.

 

[HereticBD]

DLC allows developers to add content to games, whereas before once they were launched, that's all you got until a sequel.

Correct, but it also allows for developers to abuse the system, and release an incomplete game, and charge more for the missing pieces that would've been in there otherwise.

I'm 50/50 on DLC. Sometimes it's good, and other times it's simply used to needlessly squeeze the consumer. Day 1 DLC is especially offensive.

I don't give a shit about the extra item DLC though. If you're spending $2+ on some virtual hats, or pants, etc, that shit's on you. Gotta say though, in retrospect, I find the backlash Bethesda got for the whole "Horse Armor" fiasco, a little silly now.

 

[hillelslovak87]

I just play old games. Problem solved.

Three letters: GOG

90 percent of what I play are the games I loved in 2000s, like PoP, Ghost Recon, etc, and indie games that capture the old school way of how games used to be made.

I cant do the climb tower, reveal mission markers, build base, advance story loop anymore.

 

[Turtlejuice]

Correct, but it also allows for developers to abuse the system, and release an incomplete game, and charge more for the missing pieces that would've been in there otherwise.

I'm 50/50 on DLC. Sometimes it's good, and other times it's simply used to needlessly squeeze the consumer. Day 1 DLC is especially offensive.

I don't give a shit about the extra item DLC though. If you're spending $2+ on some virtual hats, or pants, etc, that shit's on you. Gotta say though, in retrospect, I find the backlash Bethesda got for the whole "Horse Armor" fiasco, a little silly now.

It's the same as any other tool, some will use it well, some will not. Though as time passes it seems more and more are using it to milk the cow.

I don't really mind any dlc, if I don't like it I just don't buy it. The exception to that is day 1 dlc (unless it's free). If it's ready on day 1, it should be in the game.

 

[Madmick]

https://www.theverge.com/2016/3/1/11141082/what-video-games-to-play-in-2016

...except the article lists the differences as positives, when in many ways they are negatives too.


How is DLC cash grabbing a positive?

It results in more DLC generated which is more overall gaming content.

How is single player being supplemental to multiplayer a positive?

Bustling basketball courts are more fun than lonely basketball courts.

How is mandatory pay to play online a positive?

Pay to play got crushed by gamers with the Xbox One launch. The article touted free-to-play. If your gripe is with the freemium model, then you have a substantial grief.

How is the dominance of realism and the improvement of graphics making most games look generic/similar and less stylized a positive?

How is improving graphic realism making things worse or more generic? Those two things aren't mutually inclusive, nor is correlation established.

And this one triggers me to no end....but DOTA, League of Legends, etc....it's just Warcraft 3 man. And I enjoyed Warcraft 3 much more. I'm completely baffled by the explosion. When the hell are we getting Warcraft 4?

First let's emphasize that this is wrong, MOBAs are nothing like the main Warcraft game, but beyond that, what am I to glean from this? That you hated Warcraft 3...because clones of it offend you? Are you alternatively upset that they're more successful than it? Does it distress you that the developers at Blizzard aren't enjoying enough success?

As he notes, it isn't even the same hobby anymore. I played games for escapism, an interactive movie with a great story, with multiplayer when I occasionally felt competitive with my buddies. If I wanted to play sports I'd go outside.

Video games were always more than an online sport. They were an artistic experience, a place to play with cool toys and collect them, OR a place to play against a buddy.

I might sound like an old fogey, but I'm 29 and 10 years ago I was 19 lmao Can I get a fuck yeah?

Finally a little bit from the heart. I feel like there are more of these games than ever, and it isn't a dearth of this sort of content that really irks guys like you. It isn't a lack of courts.

I think what really bothers you is that everyone else moved on, and now your court (where nobody ever plays anybody else) is lonely again.

 

[Squall Leonhart]

It results in more DLC generated which is more overall gaming content.

Bustling basketball courts are more fun than lonely basketball courts.

Pay to play got crushed by gamers with the Xbox One launch. The article touted free-to-play. If your gripe is with the freemium model, then you have a substantial grief.

How is improving graphic realism making things worse or more generic? Those two things aren't mutually inclusive, nor is correlation established.

First let's emphasize that this is wrong, MOBAs are nothing like the main Warcraft game, but beyond that, what am I to glean from this? That you hated Warcraft 3...because clones of it offend you? Are you alternatively upset that they're more successful than it? Does it distress you that the developers at Blizzard aren't enjoying enough success?

Finally a little bit from the heart. I feel like there are more of these games than ever, and it isn't a dearth of this sort of content that really irks guys like you. It isn't a lack of courts.

I think what really bothers you is that everyone else moved on, and now your court (where nobody ever plays anybody else) is lonely again.

You contradict yourself here. There are more of these games than ever (singleplayer content, artistic, etc.) but then you say everyone has moved on from this type of experience. Explain?

 

[Squall Leonhart]

Lol is nothing like warcraft.

Nope, not at all:

(They're fucking identical)



Here is a perfect summary from a dude called Xenophobed on LoL forums:

"I was doing some research and apparently League of Legends was based on DOTA Defense of the Ancients.

To the point the very map summoners rift is pretty much a cartooned down and more simple carbon copy of the similar map on DOTA. I never played DOTA however i have viewed a lot of gameplay footage on youtube for DOTA2 and i have to say, it's pretty impressive.


I also learned that DOTA was actually a mod or rip off for Warcraft 3. Never played Warcraft 3. So let me get this straight.....


Warcraft 3 exists - DOTA rips off Warcraft 3 to make a game - League of Legends rips off of DOTA - Now theres DOTA 2.

League of legends is a game that is based on a game that is based on another game.

So do Copywrite laws exist anymore or did we just stop caring lol... DOTA2 would be a sequel of a game that ripped off another game"

DOTA was user created content so Blizzard didn't have rights to it, but it ran on the W3 engine...and LoL is based on that...but it is still pretty grimy...LoL looks so similar to W3, which was running on an engine from 2001.

Before someone says "but other games do this all the time, look at Doom/Quake/every other FPS, etc.".....YES, but they usually aren't made on a mapmaker that came with another game and then transferred by developers who worked on the original, with a very similar art style etc.

 

[Sano]

Nope, not at all:

(They're fucking identical)



Here is a perfect summary from a dude called Xenophobed on LoL forums:

"I was doing some research and apparently League of Legends was based on DOTA Defense of the Ancients.

To the point the very map summoners rift is pretty much a cartooned down and more simple carbon copy of the similar map on DOTA. I never played DOTA however i have viewed a lot of gameplay footage on youtube for DOTA2 and i have to say, it's pretty impressive.


I also learned that DOTA was actually a mod or rip off for Warcraft 3. Never played Warcraft 3. So let me get this straight.....


Warcraft 3 exists - DOTA rips off Warcraft 3 to make a game - League of Legends rips off of DOTA - Now theres DOTA 2.

League of legends is a game that is based on a game that is based on another game.

So do Copywrite laws exist anymore or did we just stop caring lol... DOTA2 would be a sequel of a game that ripped off another game"

DOTA was user created content so Blizzard didn't have rights to it, but it ran on the W3 engine...and LoL is based on that...but it is still pretty grimy...LoL looks so similar to W3, which was running on an engine from 2001.

I agree with you here. Dota and Lol got everything from WC3. Says a lot when some of biggest markets are basicly reskins of old games.

It does seem like the market is coming around a bit, people are getting tired of microtransactions, shitty games with no story and so forth.

Witcher 3 and Dvinity 2 (I finally bought it) rivals the games of old. It's no coincidence that they use the format which we know works, but also takes a lot of effort and creativity that most big developers don't want to invest. It does feel like it's turning around finally though. The time from a few years before Diablo 3 to like a year ago was abysmal.

 

[Treeloy]

Nope, not at all:

(They're fucking identical)



Here is a perfect summary from a dude called Xenophobed on LoL forums:

"I was doing some research and apparently League of Legends was based on DOTA Defense of the Ancients.

To the point the very map summoners rift is pretty much a cartooned down and more simple carbon copy of the similar map on DOTA. I never played DOTA however i have viewed a lot of gameplay footage on youtube for DOTA2 and i have to say, it's pretty impressive.


I also learned that DOTA was actually a mod or rip off for Warcraft 3. Never played Warcraft 3. So let me get this straight.....


Warcraft 3 exists - DOTA rips off Warcraft 3 to make a game - League of Legends rips off of DOTA - Now theres DOTA 2.

League of legends is a game that is based on a game that is based on another game.

So do Copywrite laws exist anymore or did we just stop caring lol... DOTA2 would be a sequel of a game that ripped off another game"

DOTA was user created content so Blizzard didn't have rights to it, but it ran on the W3 engine...and LoL is based on that...but it is still pretty grimy...LoL looks so similar to W3, which was running on an engine from 2001.

Before someone says "but other games do this all the time, look at Doom/Quake/every other FPS, etc.".....YES, but they usually aren't made on a mapmaker that came with another game and then transferred by developers who worked on the original, with a very similar art style etc.

The gameplay is not the same and youre comparing an rts to a moba. They are completely different types of gamed.

 

[Michaelangelo]

its called getting old

 

[Madmick]

You contradict yourself here. There are more of these games than ever (singleplayer content, artistic, etc.) but then you say everyone has moved on from this type of experience. Explain?

Not a contradiction.

One is about absolute figures. The other is about proportion. You want the mainstream to flow through your court, but it changed course, and now it doesn't. You don't care that the river flowing through your court is larger than ever. You're simply upset that it isn't the main channel.

 

[Madmick]

Nope, not at all:

(They're fucking identical)



Here is a perfect summary from a dude called Xenophobed on LoL forums:

"I was doing some research and apparently League of Legends was based on DOTA Defense of the Ancients.

To the point the very map summoners rift is pretty much a cartooned down and more simple carbon copy of the similar map on DOTA. I never played DOTA however i have viewed a lot of gameplay footage on youtube for DOTA2 and i have to say, it's pretty impressive.


I also learned that DOTA was actually a mod or rip off for Warcraft 3. Never played Warcraft 3. So let me get this straight.....


Warcraft 3 exists - DOTA rips off Warcraft 3 to make a game - League of Legends rips off of DOTA - Now theres DOTA 2.

League of legends is a game that is based on a game that is based on another game.

So do Copywrite laws exist anymore or did we just stop caring lol... DOTA2 would be a sequel of a game that ripped off another game"

DOTA was user created content so Blizzard didn't have rights to it, but it ran on the W3 engine...and LoL is based on that...but it is still pretty grimy...LoL looks so similar to W3, which was running on an engine from 2001.

Before someone says "but other games do this all the time, look at Doom/Quake/every other FPS, etc.".....YES, but they usually aren't made on a mapmaker that came with another game and then transferred by developers who worked on the original, with a very similar art style etc.

Do you understand that many of us in here are not only already aware of this history, but have actually played both games?

In Warcraft 3 you control your minions. In MOBAs like League of Legends the minions control themselves, and are completely uniform. You control only a hero, and minions are spawned in trains that move at a constant pace along "lanes" sentried by powerful Turrets. You work together in teams to take these down. Fewer turrets means less damage to your train, and the flow will start to favor you and grind down the opponent unless he eliminates a similar turret working for you.

Essentially, in a MOBA, you're in a glorified tug-of-war over the real estate of the map with your minions pulling a certain portion of each rope into the enemy's territory. This is fundamentally different than Warcraft 3 in that real estate and resource control are linearly correlated. This can flip in a moment, of course, but if you are winning, then you are controlling a larger portion of the map. In Warcraft 3 it was entirely possible (however unlikely) to control the majority of resources concentrated on minority regions of the map.

You also don't build anything. You simply buy upgrades that buff your hero's stats or abilities, and you simultaneously level these stats and abilities. The only thing you harvest is gold (to buy items) by killing minions (or achieving other objectives like killing special jungle creeps). Your efforts are focused on diminishing the opponent's minion trains, and aiding your own; ultimately closing in on the enemy's home base, where his minions are spawned, and killing the home crystal to win the game. The opposing team can resign, but otherwise, this is the only way to win, and the same every time. In Warcraft 3 of course your goal is to eliminate the opposing hero's structures, but the size, structure, layout, location, and nature of villages varied from game to game.

In MOBAs you also must play as a part of a team composition-- even if AI bots play your teammates. This isn't inherent to Warcraft 3. There aren't multiple, distinct, playable races. You also can't play multiple heroes and switch between them. You can only play your one hero. Nevertheless, in MOBAs, teams of heroes enjoy a synergy from a composition of different types of heroes with traditional attributes optimal for completing tasks composing "roles" appropriate to those respective attributes.


I cannot possibly emphasize how little am I interested in being lectured about this by someone who clearly doesn't have a feel for these games, and doesn't understand how ridiculous it is to compare them in terms of how they play. It's a testament to the greatness and diversity of modding. Dota 2 is literally so distinct from Warcraft 3 that they created and named a new subgenre for it, ffs. You wanna stick your head up your ass, be my guest, Luke, but don't ask me to hold your beersaber.

 

[Blayt7hh]

Nope, not at all:

(They're fucking identical)



Here is a perfect summary from a dude called Xenophobed on LoL forums:

"I was doing some research and apparently League of Legends was based on DOTA Defense of the Ancients.

To the point the very map summoners rift is pretty much a cartooned down and more simple carbon copy of the similar map on DOTA. I never played DOTA however i have viewed a lot of gameplay footage on youtube for DOTA2 and i have to say, it's pretty impressive.


I also learned that DOTA was actually a mod or rip off for Warcraft 3. Never played Warcraft 3. So let me get this straight.....


Warcraft 3 exists - DOTA rips off Warcraft 3 to make a game - League of Legends rips off of DOTA - Now theres DOTA 2.

League of legends is a game that is based on a game that is based on another game.

So do Copywrite laws exist anymore or did we just stop caring lol... DOTA2 would be a sequel of a game that ripped off another game"

DOTA was user created content so Blizzard didn't have rights to it, but it ran on the W3 engine...and LoL is based on that...but it is still pretty grimy...LoL looks so similar to W3, which was running on an engine from 2001.

Before someone says "but other games do this all the time, look at Doom/Quake/every other FPS, etc.".....YES, but they usually aren't made on a mapmaker that came with another game and then transferred by developers who worked on the original, with a very similar art style etc.

I think you got the history wrong. DOTA was a Warcraft 3 mod, not a ripoff. It used the game engine, but no it very clearly does not play like WC3. If you seriously think that then I doubt you have played both games.

LOL is allowed to exist because DOTA really is a legitimate subgenre of games now. How Steam got the rights to use the name DOTA I don't know, but the game is legitimately good whether or not you like that genre of games.

Anyways there are tons of games out now that I think are better than the old Warcraft formula. Warhammer 2 is about to release, so I'm not exactly heartbroken by a lack of Warcraft sequels

 

[Blayt7hh]

Do you understand that many of us in here are not only already aware of this history, but have actually played both games?

In Warcraft 3 you control your minions. In MOBAs like League of Legends the minions control themselves, and are completely uniform. You control only a hero, and minions are spawned in trains that move at a constant pace along "lanes" sentried by powerful Turrets. You work together in teams to take these down. Fewer turrets means less damage to your train, and the flow will start to favor you and grind down the opponent unless he eliminates a similar turret working for you.

Essentially, in a MOBA, you're in a glorified tug-of-war over the real estate of the map with your minions pulling a certain portion of each rope into the enemy's territory. This is fundamentally different than Warcraft 3 in that real estate and resource control are linearly correlated. This can flip in a moment, of course, but if you are winning, then you are controlling a larger portion of the map. In Warcraft 3 it was entirely possible (however unlikely) to control the majority of resources concentrated on minority regions of the map.

You also don't build anything. You simply buy upgrades that buff your hero's stats or abilities, and you simultaneously level these stats and abilities. The only thing you harvest is gold (to buy items) by killing minions (or achieving other objectives like killing special jungle creeps). Your efforts are focused on diminishing the opponent's minion trains, and aiding your own; ultimately closing in on the enemy's home base, where his minions are spawned, and killing the home crystal to win the game. The opposing team can resign, but otherwise, this is the only way to win, and the same every time. In Warcraft 3 of course your goal is to eliminate the opposing hero's structures, but the size, structure, layout, location, and nature of villages varied from game to game.

In MOBAs you also must play as a part of a team composition-- even if AI bots play your teammates. This isn't inherent to Warcraft 3. There aren't multiple, distinct, playable races. You also can't play multiple heroes and switch between them. You can only play your one hero. Nevertheless, in MOBAs, teams of heroes enjoy a synergy from a composition of different types of heroes with traditional attributes optimal for completing tasks composing "roles" appropriate to those respective attributes.


I cannot possibly emphasize how little am I interested in being lectured about this by someone who clearly doesn't have a feel for these games, and doesn't understand how ridiculous it is to compare them in terms of how they play. It's a testament to the greatness and diversity of modding. Dota 2 is literally so distinct from Warcraft 3 that they created and named a new subgenre for it, ffs. You wanna stick your head up your ass, be my guest, Luke, but don't ask me to hold your beersaber.

lol I didn't see this before I posted, but it covers my post in much more detail than I was willing too lol

 

[Crash Lance]

https://www.theverge.com/2016/3/1/11141082/what-video-games-to-play-in-2016

...except the article lists the differences as positives, when in many ways they are negatives too.


How is DLC cash grabbing a positive?

How is single player being supplemental to multiplayer a positive?

How is mandatory pay to play online a positive?

How is the dominance of realism and the improvement of graphics making most games look generic/similar and less stylized a positive?

And this one triggers me to no end....but DOTA, League of Legends, etc....it's just Warcraft 3 man. And I enjoyed Warcraft 3 much more. I'm completely baffled by the explosion. When the hell are we getting Warcraft 4?


As he notes, it isn't even the same hobby anymore. I played games for escapism, an interactive movie with a great story, with multiplayer when I occasionally felt competitive with my buddies. If I wanted to play sports I'd go outside.

Video games were always more than an online sport. They were an artistic experience, a place to play with cool toys and collect them, OR a place to play against a buddy.

I might sound like an old fogey, but I'm 29 and 10 years ago I was 19 lmao Can I get a fuck yeah?

Any day now, I will quit video games because of most of the reasons that you listed.

I don't think that I will ever quit the video games that were released from 1950 to 2005 but all of those video games are considered "old, obsolete, and relics."

I very much doubt that I will ever quit Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, Capcom vs. SNK 2, Super Smash Bros. Melee, and many others.

 

[echohead]

Pretty funny reading a post from someone who has no idea what a MOBA is citing a even more clueless poster from the LOL forums.