Muay Thai to Karate

[AshiharaFan]

Yes MT is the more effective art for combat sports. But Karate is the more effective lifestyle (nor is it the only one). Quick results aren't always what they are cracked up to be. I've always said that Karate is like the turtle and MT the hare.

Actually THE ONLY REASON MT is more effective FOR COMBAT SPORTS than Karate is because muay Thai is STRICTLY A COMBAT SPORT whereas Karate is a civilian self defense form of fighting! MT was designed strictly for the ring so there's almost no tweaking required to make it ring ready. Karate, however, was designed strictly for the non athlete or pro fighter to defend himself/herself outside of the sporting arena. So a Karateka who wishes to compete in the ring is obligated to tweak quite a bit of his/her art and deviate from the original intent of Karate. On that note, the SPORT of American Kickboxing is MORE EFFECTIVE for combat sports than the MILITARY ART of muay boran.

 

[Hotora86]

This thread...

 

[spacetime]

What kind of BS is spouted around here??? Orange belts do NOT teach Karate classes. I'm a fucking red belt and I have no rights teaching shit.

 

[spacetime]

Actually THE ONLY REASON MT is more effective FOR COMBAT SPORTS than Karate is because muay Thai is STRICTLY A COMBAT SPORT whereas Karate is a civilian self defense form of fighting! MT was designed strictly for the ring so there's almost no tweaking required to make it ring ready. Karate, however, was designed strictly for the non athlete or pro fighter to defend himself/herself outside of the sporting arena. So a Karateka who wishes to compete in the ring is obligated to tweak quite a bit of his/her art and deviate from the original intent of Karate. On that note, the SPORT of American Kickboxing is MORE EFFECTIVE for combat sports than the MILITARY ART of muay boran.

Agreed. Karate and Taekwondo were not designed for ring fighting. It wasn't even designed for the use of gloves! It changes everything once you put that shit on.

 

[shincheckin]

@Azam

you make many valid points.

 

[shincheckin]

This thread...

 

[Hotora86]

Just call it kid's self defense classes and leave it at that. Most parents won't even ask what art if you present it correctly and focus on talking about developing confidence, discipline, etc. If they ask, tell them you teach muay thai. They won't know the difference between karate and mt anyways unless they train themselves.

Underrated advice IMHO.

"Kids self-defense" would be on par with "Kids Karate" for all those soccer moms @shincheckin wants to screw... out of their money.

This way you can teach basic MT - the stuff you know best - and provide the most dedicated pupils a solid base for when they want to transition to real MT class.

PROS:
- you can actually teach what you're good at and what you want (nobody can claim it's "not *real* self-defense")
- kids are taught properly and get a solid MT base
- don't have to put in any time to learn stuff you don't find useful (like kata)
- nobody can call you a fraud (for teaching without a black belt)
- don't have to invest in Karate equipment (gis, belts, makiwara etc.)
- "Kids self-defense" might even attract more kids that "Kids Karate"
- Karate community of Sherdog is off your back
- profit $$$

CONS:
- none

There you go!

 

[j123]

Underrated advice IMHO.

"Kids self-defense" would be on par with "Kids Karate" for all those soccer moms @shincheckin wants to screw... out of their money.

Let him bang mang!

 

[AshiharaFan]

Agreed. Karate and Taekwondo were not designed for ring fighting. It wasn't even designed for the use of gloves! It changes everything once you put that shit on.

I agree with this statement. Karate as we know it today was born in Okinawa where no one walks around wearing big heavy gloves. Especially in subtropical weather. However, for those of us who live in climates that get winter seasons it wouldn't be a bad idea to train with gloves so that we would be better prepared to throw down instantly while wearing winter gloves.

 

[spacetime]

I agree with this statement. Karate as we know it today was born in Okinawa where no one walks around wearing big heavy gloves. Especially in subtropical weather. However, for those of us who live in climates that get winter seasons it wouldn't be a bad idea to train with gloves so that we would be better prepared to throw down instantly while wearing winter gloves.

Point is that Karate hand techniques fail in Kickboxing because it was never designed for gloves. There's an equal amount of techniques involving open palm strikes that are nullified with gloves on.

 

[AshiharaFan]

Point is that Karate hand techniques fail in Kickboxing because it was never designed for gloves. There's an equal amount of techniques involving open palm strikes that are nullified with gloves on.

I said nothing about Kickboxing. I just said train with gloves on. Original Okiniwan Karate (and true Karate in general) has plenty of techniques requiring the combatant to either grab their opponent (one handed or with both hands) or to enter into a clinch situation. Both of these tactics will be different if you are wearing gloves. So train with them to become accustomed to the different feel that comes from wearing them. And the only hand techniques that are nullified while wearing gloves are hand attacks. Parrying, on the other hand, will be largely unaffected except your reaction/timing may be slower due to wearing gloves (and most likely a coat, scarf, boots, etc.).

 

[aerius]

Let him bang mang!

 

[spacetime]

I said nothing about Kickboxing. I just said train with gloves on. Original Okiniwan Karate (and true Karate in general) has plenty of techniques requiring the combatant to either grab their opponent (one handed or with both hands) or to enter into a clinch situation. Both of these tactics will be different if you are wearing gloves. So train with them to become accustomed to the different feel that comes from wearing them. And the only hand techniques that are nullified while wearing gloves are hand attacks. Parrying, on the other hand, will be largely unaffected except your reaction/timing may be slower due to wearing gloves (and most likely a coat, scarf, boots, etc.).

lG


You wrote Muay Thai. It's the same principle. Well I have sparred kickboxers bare knuckled and my reaction time and ability to counter was significantly improved. I was able to dominate him even by simply bitch slapping.

 

[AshiharaFan]

 

[AshiharaFan]

lG


You wrote Muay Thai. It's the same principle. Well I have sparred kickboxers bare knuckled and my reaction time and ability to counter was significantly improved. I was able to dominate him even by simply bitch slapping.

I did not mention muay Thai either. You have me confused with another poster.

 

[spacetime]

Actually THE ONLY REASON MT is more effective FOR COMBAT SPORTS than Karate is because muay Thai is STRICTLY A COMBAT SPORT whereas Karate is a civilian self defense form of fighting! MT was designed strictly for the ring so there's almost no tweaking required to make it ring ready. Karate, however, was designed strictly for the non athlete or pro fighter to defend himself/herself outside of the sporting arena. So a Karateka who wishes to compete in the ring is obligated to tweak quite a bit of his/her art and deviate from the original intent of Karate. On that note, the SPORT of American Kickboxing is MORE EFFECTIVE for combat sports than the MILITARY ART of muay boran.

I did not quote the wrong person.

 

[AshiharaFan]

I did not quote the wrong person.

Look man, I'm not about to go back and forth with you and your silliness. You're deliberately mixing two separate posts to twist the context in which I was speaking just so you can go back and forth with somebody because you crave attention just that much.

THIS IS THE POST IN QUESTION:

I agree with this statement. Karate as we know it today was born in Okinawa where no one walks around wearing big heavy gloves. Especially in subtropical weather. However, for those of us who live in climates that get winter seasons it wouldn't be a bad idea to train with gloves so that we would be better prepared to throw down instantly while wearing winter gloves.

Here I said nothing about muay Thai or Kickboxing. Nor did I say anything about BOXING GLOVES!!! Just because I said that we should train with gloves (specifically whichever gloves a person normally wears during the winter time) does not mean I was speaking from the perspective of muay Thai or Kickboxing. If I wanted to speak from the perspective of muay Thai or Kickboxing I would have simply advised to train muay Thai or Kickboxing. My advise was to train the civilian self defense art of Karate but to also get used to training with gloves on (NOT boxing gloves) and that advice was geared towards those itt who live in climates that get really cold winters.

I'm going to reiterate and make it clear ONCE AGAIN, that I was NOT referring to or even alluding to muay Thai or Kickboxing when I made the above statement. If I wanted to advise on training muay Thai or Kickboxing I would have simply said "Hey guys, train muay Thai or Kickboxing." Very simple and direct thing to do.

While I'm at it (and to even further drive home my point) I also think it's a good idea to train while wearing boots, jeans, coats, heavy clothing, while carrying your bookbag or briefcase, etc. And I suggest these things for the same reason I suggested that people who live in colder climates learn how to fight while wearing gloves. All styles and sizes of gloves should be explored.

Now, I have made my statements clear as well as the intent behind my statements. If you come back with another BS reply that I was talking about MT or KB when I wasn't will demonstrate that you are (yet again) arguing for the sake of arguing, in which case I'll not waste anymore of time with you and this nonsense.

 

[BudoNoah]

To me, it sounds like you are primarily interested in the marketing aspect of having a name for the program that will attract more parents with their children. Admittedly, karate does have an unfortunate reputation as something primarily for children, which is why so many Taekwondo schools started calling their youth programs things like "Kiddie Karate" when the McDojo boom really started picking up. That said, I think you would be better off putting the trappings of "Kiddie Karate" around your Muay Thai curriculum. You can easily give it a style-neutral name, like "Little Dragons" or "Mini Martial Arts" or some such thing, set up a curriculum of Muay Thai techniques and a simple belt system for them to use with nice white dogi, have them bow, and have them have to say "sir/ma'am" or refer to you as Mr. or Coach shincheckin. It's honestly not the "karate" name that attracts the parents, so much as the appearance. They like the uniforms, they like the structure of a belt system, they like a certain degree of formality and discipline, etc.

Sure, you COULD go earn a kyu rank in karate and start teaching karate, but why bother for what you're wanting to do? If you want to go train in karate and learn it, awesome! But for setting up a kids' program, you don't need it.

Lol, good times. For those who are unaware, this was a response to video challenge by Master Ken of Enter The Dojo--if you haven't watched it, I recommend you check it out. It's a hilarious spoof on McDojos and martial arts tropes.

 

[spacetime]

Look man, I'm not about to go back and forth with you and your silliness. You're deliberately mixing two separate posts to twist the context in which I was speaking just so you can go back and forth with somebody because you crave attention just that much.

THIS IS THE POST IN QUESTION:



Here I said nothing about muay Thai or Kickboxing. Nor did I say anything about BOXING GLOVES!!! Just because I said that we should train with gloves (specifically whichever gloves a person normally wears during the winter time) does not mean I was speaking from the perspective of muay Thai or Kickboxing. If I wanted to speak from the perspective of muay Thai or Kickboxing I would have simply advised to train muay Thai or Kickboxing. My advise was to train the civilian self defense art of Karate but to also get used to training with gloves on (NOT boxing gloves) and that advice was geared towards those itt who live in climates that get really cold winters.

I'm going to reiterate and make it clear ONCE AGAIN, that I was NOT referring to or even alluding to muay Thai or Kickboxing when I made the above statement. If I wanted to advise on training muay Thai or Kickboxing I would have simply said "Hey guys, train muay Thai or Kickboxing." Very simple and direct thing to do.

While I'm at it (and to even further drive home my point) I also think it's a good idea to train while wearing boots, jeans, coats, heavy clothing, while carrying your bookbag or briefcase, etc. And I suggest these things for the same reason I suggested that people who live in colder climates learn how to fight while wearing gloves. All styles and sizes of gloves should be explored.

Now, I have made my statements clear as well as the intent behind my statements. If you come back with another BS reply that I was talking about MT or KB when I wasn't will demonstrate that you are (yet again) arguing for the sake of arguing, in which case I'll not waste anymore of time with you and this nonsense.

A) A heavy portion of folks don't wear gloves any time of the year B) casual gloves are suited to the configurations of ones hand and does not warp techniques as much as combat sport gloves.

 

[spacetime]

Why not get a Taekwondo black belt instead? Taekwondo is more popular than Karate.