Muay Thai to Karate

[shincheckin]

not sure if this is the correct spot to post this but I think it is, would prefer it here because anytime I post outside of either the Muay thai, standup, or gear sections of the forum, the threads get bombarded with nonsense.

anyways my question is:

I would like to run my own gym one day and one of the programs I would like to have at my gym besides muay thai would be kids karate. so if I want to teach kids karate, i need to be a black belt in karate, so I am wondering how long it would take me to get my black belt? Can I use my MT exp to speed the process up? Or possible start higher than a white belt? Can I just be like hey guys, i fight muay thai so let me test for my black belt? kinda hard for me to find the proper words for what I am asking but hopefully you guys get what I mean. Hoping my MT exp would help out somehow and shorten the process of getting the black belt. I would also guess it depends on what kind of karate. Im sure a kyokushin black belt is much harder to earn than a black belt in whatever karate is usually taught at all the local kids karate schools with 12 yr old black belts etc. which style of karate is the one generally taught at the kids karate schools?

been watching alot of this guys stuff lately, its easy to tell he knows wtf he is talking about and can definitely kick some ass.



and for the karate haters, here I am doing the same exact combo.

 

[Kirks]

Just find a mcdojo and they hand out black belts every two weeks

 

[shincheckin]

Just find a mcdojo and they hand out black belts every two weeks

lol

 

[AshiharaFan]

how long it would take me to get my black belt?

There's no definitive answer or timeline that can be given to that question. How long it will take will depend on a lot of things such as style, the school and their testing guidelines, how well you are able to absorb and demonstrate competent use of the skills taught, etc.

Can I use my MT exp to speed the process up?

I'm afraid it isn't quite that simple. If you transition from muay Thai to either Kyokushin, a Kyokushin derived style or a full contact fighting style influenced by Kyokushin you'll be able to adapt faster than if you were transitioning to a McDojo style. There are similarities and some carryover between muay Thai and full contact Karate but the fact remains that Karate is still a different fighting art/sport that has features that do not exist in muay Thai and vice-versa.

Or possible start higher than a white belt? Can I just be like hey guys, i fight muay thai so let me test for my black belt?

I'm afraid not and if you do find a school that will allow such a thing you will be wearing a McDojo blackbelt around your waist. The only time I have ever seen people accomplish what you are describing is when an experienced black belt in one style transitions to a very similar style. For example, a high ranking black belt in Enshin Karate can attain a black belt in Ashihara Karate fairly quickly and vice-versa but a person who has NOT put in the time to attain a bb in either style cannot do the same.

kinda hard for me to find the proper words for what I am asking but hopefully you guys get what I mean. Hoping my MT exp would help out somehow and shorten the process of getting the black belt.

while your MT experience will not allow you to attain a bb as quickly as you'd like it should still give you a leg up on the competition when it comes to sparring which goes a long way in legit full contact styles. It should also ensure that you pass your grading exams the first time you take it instead of failing and having to give it another crack after another 3 months.

I would also guess it depends on what kind of karate. Im sure a kyokushin black belt is much harder to earn than a black belt in whatever karate is usually taught at all the local kids karate schools with 12 yr old black belts etc. which style of karate is the one generally taught at the kids karate schools?

The deadly junior dragon ninja style. Jk. The most popular "kicking and punching" style in general is TaeKwonDo which is Korean; particularly Kukkiwon (aka Olympic) TKD. After TKD it's a pretty even playing field especially when you consider that a shitload of these McDojos teach unknown, obscure styles that the head instructor founded himself. How would you know if the McDojo instructor is such a person? Simple, if you never heard of him or his fighting style but he's a 10th dan in that style. These are the kinds of douche bags that these 11 year old tiny tigers are receiving their black belts from. If you are interested in attaining (notice I said ATTAIN and not EARN) a bb really quickly you can always enroll in one of those schools. In those schools you never fail a grading exam. You always pass as long as you fulfill the minimum weekly class participation and make sure that your check clears.

been watching alot of this guys stuff lately, its easy to tell he knows wtf he is talking about and can definitely kick some ass.

I know some average cats from the hood who would annihilate that dude w/out even breaking a sweat.

and for the karate haters, here I am doing the same exact combo.

The two differences between your combo and that Cobra Kai dude's combo are:

1). Yours make actual contact. MT (just like Kyokushin) is a true attrition sport in which your medal is seriously tested.

2). Your combo has real world power and not one of those silly "tag I got you" point combos. The differences between the two are are the same as night and day.

My sincere advice to you. If you can, find a Kyokushin or Kyokushin derived dojo, put in the blood, sweat and tears and earn a truly legit black belt. That way, even if you do specialize in teaching kids no one can claim that you're one of those untested mcdojo black belts who lack realistic combat experience.

Osu!

 

[Azam]

I'm going to give you different advice.

If you're going to take Karate - why not take something that will add to your Muay Thai and make it unique as well as learning to teach kids. Or why not just teach MT for kids.

I'd advice against doing Kyokushin - because it's similar to MT. All you will get is some more body conditioning (you already get enough from MT training) and some more kicks in the arsenal.

I'd advice doing JKA shotokan (Machida's style). It will add a lot more to your MT than Kyokushin imho - more sweeps, throws, more kicks & you'll be introduced to a completely alternative style of fighting which relies heavily on distance control, speed & footwork. I think that would add more to your toolbox.

It will take approximately (at least) 3 to 5 years (training consistently) to get a black belt in most styles. It could take much longer - depending on your instructor, the style of Karate you do & if you pick up techniques/forms quickly & pass gradings as & when you do them.

Your MT training will help speed up progress to a point but you'll be learning a lot of new things. But that said you'll progress quicker than the average joe because you already have the conditioning, stamina and flexibility.

 

[AndyMaBobs]

I have a slightly different question - does it make sense to decide you want to teach a style that you don't really have much experience in. Would it not make more sense to have a separate guy as a karate instructor?

 

[Yodsanan]

Sounds like you're underestimating the whole process. Belts get handed out by doing a certain curriculum, not inherently by your fighting ability. And there is always downtime between belts that you have to take into accounts depending on the school, even if you have all the Katas and the rest of the program down.


I actually switched to JKA Karate for one year, after I did 3 years of Muay thai just to widen my horizon and Karate ultimately just wasn't for me even though I had talent.


Im not even into the whole self defence thing at all or anything, but many things I got taught just didn't make sense to me coming from a full contact standpoint. People in the Karate club were also really surprised that I switched from a full contact style to a semi contact stlye, usually it's the other way around.

 

[shincheckin]

thanks for the replies guys. My idea was this pretty much, I was honestly looking more along the lines of Mcdojo black belt to TBH. The reason for it is, for kids karate, and I mean the real youngsters, all they are really doing at most of these schools are playing around, i can hardly see any of them kick or punch properly, its just a place for soccer mom to take little Timmy more or less. All gyms have kids programs, be it mma, boxing, mt, etc. but the little McDojo kids is by far the most popular and profitable kids program. Its also a different demographic, boxing kids are not the same as karate kids, many parents rather put their kids in karate than MT. So my idea was pretty much to become a black belt for kids karate. I figure I can teach the real youngsters very simple basic karate. For kids that are a bit older or maybe more athletic, I can teach a combination of MT and karate together. Essentially MT in a GI, adding in the extra side kicks, spinning kicks, etc. Or maybe think of it as a MT gym, with a kids McDojo program as well. The parents of most these kids are so dumb. If you ran a kids MT program, you probably make no business, but if you run a kids karate program, and just teach them MT in a GI, add some jumping and spinning kicks and bingo!

Given that I am older and nearing the end of my MT career I dont feel I have the time to dedicate to learning real Karate. But the goal of me learning karate is to be able to teach kids the basics, not be grand master.

 

[shincheckin]

Sounds like you're underestimating the whole process. Belts get handed out by doing a certain curriculum, not inherently by your fighting ability. And there is always downtime between belts that you have to take into accounts depending on the school, even if you have all the Katas and the rest of the program down.


I actually switched to JKA Karate for one year, after I did 3 years of Muay thai just to widen my horizon and Karate ultimately just wasn't for me even though I had talent.


Im not even into the whole self defence thing at all or anything, but many things I got taught just didn't make sense to me coming from a full contact standpoint. People in the Karate club were also really surprised that I switched from a full contact style to a semi contact stlye, usually it's the other way around.

your exactly right, i posted a video by Jesse Enkamp about the top of the mountain. Its really easy for me now to see the connection between all martial arts, and the things that are effective and "useless" in every martial art. Tactical shooting and even police dog training are martial arts. (i train dogs)

Paying someone else to run the karate class is not a bad idea but would prefer not too.

 

[AshiharaFan]

Sounds like you're underestimating the whole process. Belts get handed out by doing a certain curriculum, not inherently by your fighting ability. And there is always downtime between belts that you have to take into accounts depending on the school, even if you have all the Katas and the rest of the program down.

Even though the disease known as "mcdojoism syndrome" dominates the Karate schools not every school/club/dojo operate this way. There are some legit clubs out there that insist you EARN your rank through blood, sweat and tears. Sure, they are very, very few and far in between but they are out there if you are willing to really search for one.

I actually switched to JKA Karate for one year, after I did 3 years of Muay thai just to widen my horizon and Karate ultimately just wasn't for me even though I had talent.

And I'm going to guess that this is the reason you believe 100% of traditional Karate schools are belt factories. You actually downgraded. Going from a full contact sport to a non contact or even semi contact sport is like going from J Lo to Roseanne Barr.

 

[AshiharaFan]

@shincheckin How old are you? If you are younger than 30 and if your body isn't too banged up you may want to search for an Uchi Deshi program. Uchi Deshi literally means "Inside Student" in Japanese. An Uchi Deshi program is one where you train FULL TIME as a live-in student under your Sensei. It's a total immersion environment and with your MT experience you can possibly be looking at anywhere from 6 months to maybe 2 years to EARN a LEGIT black belt in a full contact Japanese style of Karate.

 

[shincheckin]

@shincheckin How old are you? If you are younger than 30 and if your body isn't too banged up you may want to search for an Uchi Deshi program. Uchi Deshi literally means "Inside Student" in Japanese. An Uchi Deshi program is one where you train FULL TIME as a live-in student under your Sensei. It's a total immersion environment and with your MT experience you can possibly be looking at anywhere from 6 months to maybe 2 years to EARN a LEGIT black belt in a full contact Japanese style of Karate.

Im 35. if I was younger I would be so down for that but I cant do something like that at this point in my life, i have too many responsibilities, work, etc. If i could "get away" like that, I would be down for a few years in japan, few years in thailand, etc. This is all stuff that now that I am older, I can look back and say coulda shoulda woulda but didnta

 

[j123]

I have a slightly different question - does it make sense to decide you want to teach a style that you don't really have much experience in. Would it not make more sense to have a separate guy as a karate instructor?

But then he has to pay someone

 

[shincheckin]

i also want to add that in my time, in my younger days, when I could have moved to japan or thailand for a few years, it wasnt like it is today with all the tehcnology and internet. I couldnt just get on the computer, find a gym, email them, set it all up etc.

In my time, you would of had to call or mail a letter. That would require having some type of contact in another country. so things were much more difficult.

 

[Hotora86]

thanks for the replies guys. My idea was this pretty much, I was honestly looking more along the lines of Mcdojo black belt to TBH. The reason for it is, for kids karate, and I mean the real youngsters, all they are really doing at most of these schools are playing around, i can hardly see any of them kick or punch properly, its just a place for soccer mom to take little Timmy more or less. All gyms have kids programs, be it mma, boxing, mt, etc. but the little McDojo kids is by far the most popular and profitable kids program. Its also a different demographic, boxing kids are not the same as karate kids, many parents rather put their kids in karate than MT. So my idea was pretty much to become a black belt for kids karate. I figure I can teach the real youngsters very simple basic karate. For kids that are a bit older or maybe more athletic, I can teach a combination of MT and karate together. Essentially MT in a GI, adding in the extra side kicks, spinning kicks, etc. Or maybe think of it as a MT gym, with a kids McDojo program as well. The parents of most these kids are so dumb. If you ran a kids MT program, you probably make no business, but if you run a kids karate program, and just teach them MT in a GI, add some jumping and spinning kicks and bingo!

Given that I am older and nearing the end of my MT career I dont feel I have the time to dedicate to learning real Karate. But the goal of me learning karate is to be able to teach kids the basics, not be grand master.

I don't want to "hate" on you but frankly, I don't like your approach. From your posts I understood that you really like and respect Karate, even though you're a MT guy yourself. But now you want a McDojo blackbelt to teach kids "fake" Karate because it pays better? Come on, man, you're doing it wrong.

Karate schools are a dime a dozen and many of them are crap. Karate isn't as "cool" as it used to be in 80s, now MMA is "cool". You see kids more interested in boxing or kickboxing nowadays because those "are useful for MMA" (that's the general consensus). Why not capitalize on this new trend and indeed have a "Junior MT" program?

You may not get a swarm of Karate moms bringing their 6-year-olds BUT you may get a good bunch of teenagers with an open mind and that fire in their eyes - because they can learn proper MT from a proper MT fighter! You'll have a dedicated and disciplined group of teens instead of a whiny kindergarden - a completely different experience both for them and YOU.

You may even fill a market niche - maybe there's a large demand for "kids MT" but the only thing offered right now is "kids Karate" so that's where all the kids end up?

You do you, man. You're an expert in MT so forget about Karate and teach kids MT. That's my advice - and I'm a Karate guy! Good luck!

 

[j123]

Just buy some belts on eBay and teach on your own . Make up some weird Asian sounding names for katas and you're good to go. Award the camo belt after they put 10 years in. Freedom pants after 20 years

I've seen a MT McDojo on here once. belt system, and katas too. Lol, the guy was actually a fighter too in his earlier days, at least he was. 'merica fuck yeah

 

[Silver tongue samurai]

I think @Hotora86 has the right idea. Your bread and butter is obviously mt as is mine. I actually started as a kid at a mt gym it was small but i loved it. I later went to a gym in Brampton and they had a kids class before the adult one so i would watch. There had to be at least 30-40 kids a class.

I think teaching something you have steeped yourself in for so long would be the right way. Give a free trial let the kid kick some shit and theyll be hooked haha. Also on the business side if the gym ends up growing then you may need someone to teach classes as well and showing them your "system" would be much easier if its something you are comfortable with yourself. I hope this makes sense and helps at least a little.

Edit:Freedom pants are a good idea.

 

[shincheckin]

I don't want to "hate" on you but frankly, I don't like your approach. From your posts I understood that you really like and respect Karate, even though you're a MT guy yourself. But now you want a McDojo blackbelt to teach kids "fake" Karate because it pays better? Come on, man, you're doing it wrong.

Karate schools are a dime a dozen and many of them are crap. Karate isn't as "cool" as it used to be in 80s, now MMA is "cool". You see kids more interested in boxing or kickboxing nowadays because those "are useful for MMA" (that's the general consensus). Why not capitalize on this new trend and indeed have a "Junior MT" program?

You may not get a swarm of Karate moms bringing their 6-year-olds BUT you may get a good bunch of teenagers with an open mind and that fire in their eyes - because they can learn proper MT from a proper MT fighter! You'll have a dedicated and disciplined group of teens instead of a whiny kindergarden - a completely different experience both for them and YOU.

You may even fill a market niche - maybe there's a large demand for "kids MT" but the only thing offered right now is "kids Karate" so that's where all the kids end up?

You do you, man. You're an expert in MT so forget about Karate and teach kids MT. That's my advice - and I'm a Karate guy! Good luck!

i see your point, if I was younger I would be down to immerse myself in karate, and everything you guys have mentioned as far a MT programs for kids etc I would have as well.

The idea was basically just to also have a very young kids karate class, no adult karate, just kids, how much of an expert in karate do you need to be to teach a 5 yr old? that was kinda my point.

something like this, point being you dont need to be a master at MT/karate to teach the very basics to 5 yr olds, but you do need to be a champ/blackbelt for the parents to want to bring their kids in.

 

[shincheckin]

this guy actually does alot more than most places now a days i would consider this a good kids class really

 

[shincheckin]

I think @Hotora86 has the right idea. Your bread and butter is obviously mt as is mine. I actually started as a kid at a mt gym it was small but i loved it. I later went to a gym in Brampton and they had a kids class before the adult one so i would watch. There had to be at least 30-40 kids a class.

I think teaching something you have steeped yourself in for so long would be the right way. Give a free trial let the kid kick some shit and theyll be hooked haha. Also on the business side if the gym ends up growing then you may need someone to teach classes as well and showing them your "system" would be much easier if its something you are comfortable with yourself. I hope this makes sense and helps at least a little.

Edit:Freedom pants are a good idea.
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good points but I would rather have both a kids MT and kids Karate program.