Muay thai student transition to taekwondo

[Discipulus]

Are you serious? He's posing for a picture. Usually, fighters who are posing for a picture, try not to cover their face, haha.

I hope you're joking. Have you ever actually watched a boxing match that took place before 1960? Here, let me help you:



That's Charley Burley, the same gentleman in the picture I posted above. See where he holds his hands? That's because he has a very strong defensive stance, and excellent head movement.

Ok, but can you tell me which boxing gym has trainers who teaches beginners and intermediates to keep their hands down?

I'm going to assume Roger Mayweather, since that was his style, and the style he taught his son. But let's be honest--me saying that carries as much weight as you implying that Mayweather learned to fight with his hands always held high.

Yea, until he gets KTFO a few times, and then he trains the right way until he develops his counterfighting game.

Floyd Mayweather's Amateur Record: 84-6
Floyd Mayweather's Professional Record: 42-0

And someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think he's ever been knocked out. You know that's how he got the nickname "Pretty Boy," right? Because even in his amateur days he took so few shots to the face that he never had any scars or anything.

I guess he's still waiting for those few knockouts to teach him that lesson about where to hold his hands.

Given that I am a TKD, it would be pretty amazing for me to have not sparred against skilled TKD fighters.

Sounds like you got your ass whooped in Taekwondo, then. You've definitely got a chip on your shoulder about the style.

So no other styles knows this thing called, footwork?

You know I didn't say that, nor did I imply it. Taekwondo merely places emphasis on defensive footwork rather than blocking.

So you think skipping rope is the same as being taught to throw arm punches from the waist with the other hand going to the other side of the waist with zero pivoting? When was the last time a boxer started jumping in the ring during a fight with his hands mimicking like he was skipping rope? Oh, never? And when was the last time you saw a TKD fight with his hands down at waist level on YouTube? Almost all the time.

=/=

These are part of the reasons, but the main reason is because Mayweather is a reflex fighter. He developed himself into one but was not specifically taught to be one from the very beginning. Beginners are taught the right way, hands up. No one is taught to keep both hands at their waist like TKD does. Can you direct me to any boxing gym that does?

How exactly do you know all of Floyd's training history, again?

 

[Bay Area]

No, it's not, I've trained and competed in Taekwondo my entire life and I teach and coach for a living now. It's nothing to do with stability. It's because your hands get tired and they don't need to be up.

Blah blah blah. So have I. Its to stay loose, and to lower your center of gravity, making kicking easier. And for stability

 

[Discipulus]

Blah blah blah. So have I. Its to stay loose, and to lower your center of gravity, making kicking easier. And for stability

It's hard to disagree that it at least helps one's stability to keep the hands lower. There's a reason Thai fighters pump their hands when they throw a kick. It's much harder to kick with a high, tight guard.

 

[Bay Area]

Well I think everyone is saying the same thing. Hands don't need to be up so you can lower them at your sides. This relaxes you, can make blocking the target easier, lowers your center of gravity thus creating a stable base, and you can rest your arms.

 

[judokaboxer]

Well if you think that skipping rope and walking like a duck, & bear, etc...is the same as training fighting forms & stances, then that's really funny. Pretty huge difference between throwing a punch and doing pushups.

.

everything you do inside a gym has a purpose specially to strengthen a technique. duck walk strengthens the legs. sit up strengthens the abs to protect against body shots..jogging improves the cardio, if you only train in punching and kicking then there's something lacking
in your training.

 

[Ethan]

Your hands get tired? What? Are you training kids with MS?



Sorry, but none of this makes sense to me.

If the hands were at chest level, I'd have no problem--- I practiced Shotokan for six/seven years so I understand the premise, the distance is farther so you have to worry about the kicks more (you also want to jut your hand out a bit for distance control and if you do that by your face, your ribs are asking for being broken).

But WKF TKD fighters don't keep their hands at their chest.
They
keep
them
at
their
stomach..
Or lower.

They aren't at a position to block at all, as a matter of fact, they have to be brought up to swat away a kick

Now, just by looking at those pictures, I can see SOME intrinsic value: the sidekick is common in TKD and by turning the body completely sideways and keeping your arms down like that, you can let your arm absorb kicks and protect the body armor... but... is that really it? There must be more. It's not 'arm fatigue,' c'mon...

They just do not need to be there. Why's that so hard to get? After 3 5 minute rounds it does make a difference. The hands up also telegraph more than you think.

The other thing that most don't get is that Kukkiwon sets cirriculum, not WTF. WTF is strictly a tournament governing body. Hands down is ingrained in the sport training method because the hands don't need to be up, that's all. Athletes do this, people who spar for fun/with the intention of cross training or self defense do not.

Real sidekicks aren't that common in Taekwondo. At least in WTF. Cut kicks are, they're different, much less powerful.

It's the same reason MMA has it's own developed stance and footwork distinct from the disciplines that make it up. It's the method that plays to the rules the best and succeeds in that sport.

 

[Ethan]

Blah blah blah. So have I. Its to stay loose, and to lower your center of gravity, making kicking easier. And for stability

Staying loose I will agree with. Stability is a miniscule side benefit and comes from the lower tension in the upper body rather than where your hands physically are.

I'm beginning to see what you're getting at now and it's close to what I've been saying.

 

[Ethan]

Can you direct me to the gyms that teaches hands down at the waist like TKD then?

No one teaches hands down including Taekwondo gyms. I don't know why I can't get this across to you, It's really really simple I promise.

Your hands do not need to stay in one position once you understand movement. No Taekwondo gym teaches hands down like you're thinking, the sport teams teach not to bother with a guard because it isn't necessary. "Hands up" should only be used for the first three or four months of sparring at the absolute most, for a reasonably co ordinated adult. Unlike Shotokan kumite, Taekwondo sparring is all about the contact and the stance is irrelevant.

 

[Jukai]

They just do not need to be there. Why's that so hard to get? After 3 5 minute rounds it does make a difference. The hands up also telegraph more than you think.

No no, I wont accept the answer about being tired, that's ludicrous. Boxers keep their hands up for 12-15 rounds. I have kept my hands up for 5 three minute rounds when I competed. I wasn't even tired. There's no way I'd accept that OLYMPIC ATHLETES can't hold their hands up. That's a really lame excuse.

I can see hands telegraphing blows, that's an honest one too. But saying they don't need to be there? Eh...

The other thing that most don't get is that Kukkiwon sets cirriculum, not WTF. WTF is strictly a tournament governing body. Hands down is ingrained in the sport training method because the hands don't need to be up, that's all. Athletes do this, people who spar for fun/with the intention of cross training or self defense do not.

Real sidekicks aren't that common in Taekwondo. At least in WTF. Cut kicks are, they're different, much less powerful.

It's the same reason MMA has it's own developed stance and footwork distinct from the disciplines that make it up. It's the method that plays to the rules the best and succeeds in that sport.

Ok... I get all this... clearly hands down has a reason for WTF... I'm not a moron like 98Birds, I understand you do things for one tournament and do other things for other tournaments. It's a tactic strictly for Olympic style TKD.

 

[peanut66]

No no, I wont accept the answer about being tired, that's ludicrous. Boxers keep their hands up for 12-15 rounds. I have kept my hands up for 5 three minute rounds when I competed. I wasn't even tired. There's no way I'd accept that OLYMPIC ATHLETES can't hold their hands up. That's a really lame excuse.

I can see hands telegraphing blows, that's an honest one too. But saying they don't need to be there? Eh...



Ok... I get all this... clearly hands down has a reason for WTF... I'm not a moron like 98Birds, I understand you do things for one tournament and do other things for other tournaments. It's a tactic strictly for Olympic style TKD.

hey JUKAI grab some popcorn and watch this clip

you got some splaining to do Lucy...


Stephen Thompson UFC - YouTube

 

[Bay Area]

hey JUKAI grab some popcorn and watch this clip

you got some splaining to do Lucy...


Stephen Thompson UFC - YouTube

What are we taking away from again?

 

[Bay Area]

your hands do not need to stay in one position once you understand movement.

+1000

 

[Jukai]

hey JUKAI grab some popcorn and watch this clip

you got some splaining to do Lucy...


Stephen Thompson UFC - YouTube

Yeah uhhh... what Bay said... what am I suppose to explain here?

 

[peanut66]

Yeah uhhh... what Bay said... what am I suppose to explain here?

thompson spent the whole fight with his hands down at his waist , just like the olympic tkd guys ,,, but he is a karate guy

watch from 4 minute mark

 

[Bay Area]

thompson spent the whole fight with his hands down at his waist , just like the olympic tkd guys ,,, but he is a karate guy

watch from 4 minute mark

Its Kenpo Karate I guess. Which looks a hell of a lot like TKD.

Anyway, Wonderboy is currently my favorite fighter. But if he loses tomorrow, I will dump him quick and ride the coat tails of the next big thing. Thats just the way we roll in Miami.

 

[Jukai]

thompson spent the whole fight with his hands down at his waist , just like the olympic tkd guys ,,, but he is a karate guy

watch from 4 minute mark

He didn't start with his hands down, he started with his hands at his chest. Around thirty seconds in, he saw Stiggen wasn't going to try and engage so he dropped his hands in an attempt to BEG Stiggen to engage. It's the same thing Anderson does, he doesn't start with his hands at his waist, he starts with his hands 'low' and then ends up with his hands 'really low.'

With the TKD guys (I mean, the top of the crop), they start off right off the bat really, really low. I'm asking for a reason, and I just feel like I'm getting best guest answers.
I gotta e-mail an Olympian, haha.

 

[Bay Area]

With the TKD guys (I mean, the top of the crop), they start off right off the bat really, really low. I'm asking for a reason, and I just feel like I'm getting best guest answers.
I gotta e-mail an Olympian, haha.

The answer is to stay loose, and to lower the center of gravity for a stable base. Its easier to "whip" out kicks this way. They can receive these advantages because they don't have to worry about being punched in the face. An indirect advantage is they can rest their arms. Another indirect advantage is it facilitates in blocking incoming kicks.

 

[Jukai]

The answer is to stay loose, and to lower the center of gravity for a stable base. Its easier to "whip" out kicks this way. They can receive these advantages because they don't have to worry about being punched in the face. An indirect advantage is they can rest their arms. Another indirect advantage is it facilitates in blocking incoming kicks.

See, what you're telling me is different than what Peanut is telling me than what Ethan is telling me. Normally I'd chock it off as "TMA nonsense which no one knows why they do it" but these are OLYMPIC CHAMPIONS who are doing it... if it didn't give them a distinct advantage, they'd raise their hands up. So yeah. I feel like people are getting annoyed they have to repeat the same things but everyone is repeating a different same thing.

 

[Bay Area]

See, what you're telling me is different than what Peanut is telling me than what Ethan is telling me. Normally I'd chock it off as "TMA nonsense which no one knows why they do it" but these are OLYMPIC CHAMPIONS who are doing it... if it didn't give them a distinct advantage, they'd raise their hands up. So yeah. I feel like people are getting annoyed they have to repeat the same things but everyone is repeating a different same thing.

Short answer: to provide stability by lowering the center of gravity, and to stay loose.


Bay Area

 

[Ethan]

Reduced tension in the upper body which helps your center of gravity and the whole "relax" thing. The tension or lack thereof has more to do with it than the weight from your hands IMO.