Muay Thai Stance VS Sanshou / Sanda Stance

[Keej613]

Heyo!

I've trained Muay Thai for a few years and I've recently taken up Sanshou.

While everyone told me that it would be a fairly seamless transition, I'm now finding out about all the little things that I picked up from Muay Thai that I have to un-learn for Sanshou.

Last night, the trainers instructed me on how to correct my stance for Sanshou.

So now I'm curious and I want to know if what they taught me is a standard Sanshou stance or if it's simply what they prefer and think is best. (I'm totally okay with that if that's the case. I just want to know if it's THE way or if it's THEIR way.)

So, all that being said, what do you know about the differences (or lack thereof) between Muay Thai stances and Sanshou stances.

Thanks!

 

[Cannon_6]

Sorry -- I don't know nuthin' about Sanshou stances, but I'm curious.

How did your trainers correct your stance? What are they saying is different?

 

[Keej613]

They recommend a lower stance (bend more at the knees) and different foot positioning.

 

[LOGAN X]

Sanshou stance is still on the toes but a bit more squared off( back leg a little more forward for takedowns and throws.

 

[Snubnoze707]

Sanshou stance is still on the toes but a bit more squared off( back leg a little more forward for takedowns and throws.

Every fight I've seen they seem way less square than MT and flat footed so that they are in position for side kicks. Their back foot also looks to be at 90 degrees instead of 45 degrees. Of course they change their stance at closer range to adjust to throws tho.

I've never trained in Sanda so I'm only speaking based on what I've seen in fights so take it for what it is...

 

[kickboxing_fan1]

I thought that muay thai favoured more weight on the back leg to make it easier to lift up the front leg to check kicks or made you more upright when you entered your clinch so that it is harder to get your head down in the clinch. I thought in sanshou there was a more even distribution in weight making it easier to slip punches like cung le did against Tony fryklund although I thought there was also a greater variation between individual fighters.

As far as footwork goes muay thai favours a rhythymic predictable footwork and rules out moving backwards because you will be marked down regardless of whether you are outstriking your opponent. Moving backwards is ruled out because muay thai is so imbibed in traditional thai culture that the purpose of the fights are more to entertain thai people who like fighters who show a lot of heart rather than a lot intelligence.

 

[Snubnoze707]

I thought that muay thai favoured more weight on the back leg to make it easier to lift up the front leg to check kicks or made you more upright when you entered your clinch so that it is harder to get your head down in the clinch. I thought in sanshou there was a more even distribution in weight making it easier to slip punches like cung le did against Tony fryklund although I thought there was also a greater variation between individual fighters.

As far as footwork goes muay thai favours a rhythymic predictable footwork and rules out moving backwards because you will be marked down regardless of whether you are outstriking your opponent. Moving backwards is ruled out because muay thai is so imbibed in traditional thai culture that the purpose of the fights are more to entertain thai people who like fighters who show a lot of heart rather than a lot intelligence.

There is no one single stance in Muay Thai. Different gyms have different stances. I've seen Nakmuay fight with more weight on the lead leg even. It all depends on the fighter's style and what techniques he uses the most and at what range the fighter is at.

There is nothing in the rules of Muay Thai that say you cannot move backwards.

You will lose a point if you:
-Turn your back to your opponent.
-Run or dance away rather than standing and fighting.

If you move backwards and counter with a body kick, you score. You are not going to be marked down for moving backwards because you are fighting and not running.

Nakmuay take backward steps to slip and counter all the time. Haven't you ever watched Saenchai Sor Kingstar fight? I've seen him take multiple backward steps to avoid strikes.

So there is no "lack of intelegence" just your lack of understanding.

 

[lightw8]

I always thought with mt your hands were a little higher, and your stance was a little more squared up. But then again its all preference I think.

 

[kickboxing_fan1]

I wasn't saying that all thai fighters are the same or that all thai judges are the same. This is one article on tradition muay thai scoring;
http://www.muaythaionline.org/features/muaythaijudging.html
There are no explicit criteria its just based on what the judges have grown up seeing and prefer to see. Your example of moving backwards and then stepping inside with a bodykick is true but If I prefered to use more movement and say moved backwards from three kicks but didn't immediately counter then this would be marked down even if in a separate exchange I stepped inside and landed a combo. The article also goes on to explain that punches score little (unless your opponent gets knocked down or out) in traditional muay thai scoring which is a large part of the reason thai fighters remain upright since they don't have to worry as much about head movement. Furthermore it goes on to explain how much weight strikes in the clinch are given over other strikes. While strikes in the clinch usually end most fights in traditional muay thai in mma you have to worry about pummeling for double underhooks, legs sweeps, your opponent changing levels for a double. Moreover, even though most of the strikes are generally powerful i.e elbows and straight knees they favour any strike in the clinch. My friend fought in a local thai fight and he battered his opponent with punches to the face only for the other guy to earn a draw with a couple of curving knee strikes in the clinch that had no power and did nothing.

 

[Teachaaa]

I thought that muay thai favoured more weight on the back leg to make it easier to lift up the front leg to check kicks or made you more upright when you entered your clinch so that it is harder to get your head down in the clinch. I thought in sanshou there was a more even distribution in weight making it easier to slip punches like cung le did against Tony fryklund although I thought there was also a greater variation between individual fighters.

As far as footwork goes muay thai favours a rhythymic predictable footwork and rules out moving backwards because you will be marked down regardless of whether you are outstriking your opponent. Moving backwards is ruled out because muay thai is so imbibed in traditional thai culture that the purpose of the fights are more to entertain thai people who like fighters who show a lot of heart rather than a lot intelligence.

this is 100% correct.. Snubnose don't get pissy so quick.

for one he's not saying muay thai fighters aren't intelligent, he just saying that standing and fighting and showing heart is more important to the judges than showing how "smart" you are by dodging/making him miss etc...

of course none of it is in the rules but it's definately an unwritten rule.

when i first started training in thailand I used to get yelled at when sparring M.T. because i used to move "too much". and not just backwards and forwards, laterally too. it's because of the mindset that muay thai is fought and judged with, which is very different than an MMA mindset.

although i still don't agree with it and think it's stupid, i now stand my ground more when sparring at my M.T. gym. but not when sparring MMA.

 

[Cool Hand Luke]

in my experience, the san shou stance was definitely more boxer-like i.e not squared upto your opponent, whilst my muay thai instructor wants a near sqaure stance when fighting.

 

[Snubnoze707]

this is 100% correct.. Snubnose don't get pissy so quick.

for one he's not saying muay thai fighters aren't intelligent, he just saying that standing and fighting and showing heart is more important to the judges than showing how "smart" you are by dodging/making him miss etc...

of course none of it is in the rules but it's definately an unwritten rule.

when i first started training in thailand I used to get yelled at when sparring M.T. because i used to move "too much". and not just backwards and forwards, laterally too. it's because of the mindset that muay thai is fought and judged with, which is very different than an MMA mindset.

although i still don't agree with it and think it's stupid, i now stand my ground more when sparring at my M.T. gym. but not when sparring MMA.

It's all good I miss interpreted the point he was trying to make...

 

[welts]

They recommend a lower stance (bend more at the knees) and different foot positioning.

Ive done san shou for about a year and a half, which isnt a long time so excuse me if im wrong.

But san shou is quite often more wrestling orientated than striking. Most combination of kicks and punches end up in a take down or clinch if not all. The points system makes taking someone to the floor more important than beating someone up. So because of this the stance often one thats more centered around wrestling.

A lot of san shou fighters bob around on there feet too which as far as i am aware is more about trying to hide any telegraphing motions. The eastern san shou is usually very sloppy with the hands, with a lot of silly looping punches but they have a great ability of staying at extreme range when striking not unlike machida.

There are some great things about san shou for example the ability to seamlessly change from striking to take downs. But the majority of the time as san shou is just a rule set rather than a style and is often practised by morons in the west.. its hard to find good teaching.

I recommend anyone interested in san shou look up lui hailong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twxa5qPfAU4

Though most style vs style videos are stupid or unfairly matched opponents/unfair rulesets this video is a reasonable demonstration of how san shou and MT styles can differ.

 

[Teachaaa]

yeah! we can all be friends again! lol

 

[ambertch]

well you need to check out the Sanshou ruleset to understand the way they like to stand. In Chinese style amateur sanshou people tend to jab with sidekicks at range before:

1. catching a kick and going for the trip
2. ducking/darting in for a takedown, possibly trowing a punch or two to set it up

You really don't see a lot of boxing and even less trading in pure Sanshou competition. So the sideways, highly mobile stance makes sense as the fighters don't need the stability to get set on the feet for an exchange of blows.


Most people in America who train sanshou fight in Muay Thai competition though. They are gonna have a more kickboxing stance, doing more boxing. I dunno what kind of gym you're doing sanshou at - I like to caution people here whenever they ask about Sanshou: a lot of sanshou McDojos out there. It's commonly added to a sport wushu school's curriculum