Move voting age to 21 with gun owning age

Old enough to fight in a war, old enough to vote and buy firearms.

You could make a compelling argument that only military personnel under the age of 21 can vote or buy firearms though.
 
JudoThrowFiasco said:
I thought there was a connection between countries with lower drinking ages (canada, various in Europe, Australia) and higher rates of binge drinking among teens 15-19


" Although many young people disobey the drinking age, the evidence shows that it has depressed drinking and saved lives.

The review found the drinking age saves at least hundreds of young lives annually just as a result of reduced alcohol-age-related traffic fatalities among underage drivers. The review pointed to one study after the National Minimum Drinking Age Act of 1984, which raised the legal drinking age from 18 to 21: It found that the number of fatally injured drivers with a positive blood alcohol concentration decreased by 57 percent among ages 16 to 20, compared with a 39 percent decrease for those 21 to 24 and 9 percent for those 25 and older. Other studies had similar positive findings.

Chances are the number of lives saved is higher, potentially in the thousands each year, when accounting for alcohol-related deaths beyond drunk driving, such as liver cirrhosis, other accidents, and violent behavior.

The review also pointed to New Zealand, which reduced its drinking age from 20 to 18 in 1999. The country saw significant increases in drinking among ages 18 to 19, bigger increases among those 16 to 17 years old, and a rise in alcohol-related crashes among 15- to 19-year-olds."
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I'll have to revisit the issue, as I may have been mistaken in thinking the evidence went in the opposite direction.
 
HIMBOB said:
Predatory lenders are everywhere.

I would not object if reasonable consumer protections are in place and enforced.

As an example at 19 I was offered a $70,000 pre approved car loan when I applied for a $1,500 credit card. I earned $22,000pa.

It's not the product that concerns me it's the debt.
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Ok, you're getting into the nuances of that applies to people of any age -- the fact is that contractual agreements have an age guideline of 18, and if you had the means and ability at 18-20, not sure anyone would want to have to ask their parents for permission. Student loans are also an example.
 
KILL KILL said:
Old enough to fight in a war, old enough to vote and buy firearms.

You could make a compelling argument that only military personnel under the age of 21 can vote or buy firearms though.
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I get restricting firearm access to only military personnel under 21 but voting? Why?
 
KILL KILL said:
I dont agree with either. Just playing devil's advocate.
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I know but what is the compelling argument behind restricting voting under the age of 21 to only military personnel? I understand firearm ownership since they are put through extensive firearm training but I don't see what being in the military has to do with voting.
 
Kafir-kun said:
I know but what is the compelling argument behind restricting voting under the age of 21 to only military personnel? I understand firearm ownership since they are put through extensive firearm training but I don't see what being in the military has to do with voting.
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I was going off of the OP.
 
KILL KILL said:
I was going off of the OP.
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But he doesn't mention providing an exception to military personnel, you did. Like Is aid, with gun ownership I get but I'm not seeing the connection between voting and military service.
 
And on the flip side of that coin, make voters establish basic competency at registration.

Scerpi said:
I'd support entering and completing a firearms safety and laws course. Then entering your info as a gun owner and keep it updated with firearms you currently own.

For the sole fact it might stop a significant percentage of people from impulse buying out of anger and/or depression.

The gun vendors would hate it because I'm guessing a ton of their sales is contingent on someone impulse buying a weapon they see and and like...

I don't know, just throwing it out there.
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Kafir-kun said:
But he doesn't mention providing an exception to military personnel, you did. Like Is aid, with gun ownership I get but I'm not seeing the connection between voting and military service.
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I believe if someone is entrusted with the responsibility to go off to war, they should enjoy the same rights as any adult, regardless of age.
 
DragRacer said:
And on the flip side of that coin, make voters establish basic competency at registration.
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Like a literacy test to vote? I think we tried something like that before...
KILL KILL said:
I believe if someone is entrusted with the responsibility to go off to war, they should enjoy the same rights as any adult, regardless of age.
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Admirable but I don't necessarily buy it. War is pretty much always been carried out by young men and I don't think being a soldier makes one more equipped to vote than a civilian of the same age. That said I know you're not arguing for it, just throwing it out there.
 
Or demonstrate you understand the basics of government before being able to vote, just like demonstratiing basic firearms competency before being able to own a gun.

I’m just drawing a parallel to the gun laws being proposed, which I’m undecided how I feel about yet, hence this thread to exchange ideas.

Being able to vote and reproduce without the least understanding of the consequences seems just as big a travesty as being able to walk out the door with an AR15 at 18 years old, you know.. while we’re discussing stripping Americans of rights.

Kafir-kun said:
Like a literacy test to vote? I think we tried something like that before...

Admirable but I don't necessarily buy it. War is pretty much always been carried out by young men and I don't think being a soldier makes one more equipped to vote than a civilian of the same age. That said I know you're not arguing for it, just throwing it out there.
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DragRacer said:
Or demonstrate you understand the basics of government before being able to vote, just like demonstratiing basic firearms competency before being able to own a gun.

I’m just drawing a parallel to the gun laws being proposed, which I’m undecided how I feel about yet, hence this thread to exchange ideas.

Being able to vote and reproduce without the least understanding of the consequences seems just as big a travesty as being able to walk out the door with an AR15 at 18 years old, you know.. while we’re discussing stripping Americans of rights.
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Well maybe look into the history of literacy tests to see why they were banned in the first place.
 
DragRacer said:
This makes sense because 18-20 year olds are still essentially children in adult bodies.

If we’re acknowledging that they lack critical thinking ability by stripping them of their right to own firearms , along with their existing inability to buy alcohol, then voting rights removed would complete the transition to second class citizens that this proposed gun ban attaches itself to.

I personally don’t think we should do either, but answer the question “what age is an adult”? If the answer is 18, then all the legal rights that a 40 year old has need to be granted to the 18 year old. But if the answer is 21, then go ahead and call a spade a spade and treat them like the children that a gun/alcohol ban purports them to be.
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I say move it down to 'getting shot to death in school' age.

If you are old enough to get killed in school, you are old enough to vote in my book.
 
I’m familiar.
I was imagining being able to show understanding of basics of government rather than literacy.
Maybe attach that in tandem to the requirement to demonstrate gun skills before being granted the right to own weapons.

Kafir-kun said:
Well maybe look into the history of literacy tests to see why they were banned in the first place.
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