Most suitable striking art for short and stocky guy

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by Sansara, Sep 21, 2016.

  1. Sansara

    Sansara Blue Belt

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    Well i am at a styles crossroads here, need some advice in what style i should be focusing on

    I trained a lot of time in Shotokan, but i really got tired of all the kata and such non sense and i dont see me getting back to that. Unfortunately they focus too much on traditional training methods that not only are boring to practice but also not very useful. A pity. Then i had a small experience with kyokushin.I loved the leg kicks but i hated the fact that they dont punch the head, that makes sparring just a contest of pain endurance. Also, going to kyokushin training makes you feel that you are in an army bootcamp.

    Nowadays i got back to boxing, after starting it long time ago and stopping after one year because i didnt had the time. I really like boxing, but it seems to me that it is really an uphill battle to spar taller opponents.

    So, is boxing the most adequate striking art for a short stock guy? Maybe i just need a little more practice, i still have some habits from shotokan that dont translate well to the big-gloves small space environment boxing provides.
     
  2. Pugilistic

    Pugilistic Red Belt

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    Some questions you should ask yourself. What are you trying to accomplish? Are you looking to compete? Which discipline do you enjoy? When do ask which style would be better for a short stocky guy, what do you mean by “better?” Better for what?

    As far as boxing goes, there are tons of examples of shorter guys who have great success against taller opponents. The most famous is Mike Tyson but Rigondeaux is like 5’3” and out boxes and counters taller guys all the time. Gonzalez is 5’2” and one of the best boxers right now. Bradley is like 5’6” and most of his opponents are taller than him, and the toughest opponent of his career was a guy the same height as him. Ricky Hatton was also a short guy for his weight class but at one point he was one of the challengers to Mayweather’s position as p4p king. Cotto went up to middle weight, was outsized but was knocking out guys out until he met Canelo, and Canelo won not because he’s bigger, but because Canelo is extremely fucking good.

    Bottom line: do what you enjoy and don’t think about your height and build too much.
     
  3. Borass

    Borass Yellow Belt

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    I would say boxing or dutch kickboxing. As the shorter fighter, you need mobility: you need your two legs on the ground... What americans call "dutch style" kickboxing is very nice too... Anyway, like pugilistic said, you must choose the style what you prefer... Or your prefered gym and coach... And then adapt to your morphology...
    When you look at Van Roosmalen, Zambidis, or stocky and short fighters in general, punching is their main weapon...
     
  4. ARIZE

    ARIZE Blue Belt

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    If you feel the height difference is a problem in boxing, you will feel it twice in a sport where kicks are involved. That doesn't mean you can't be good at it, but in any striking art, you will have to build your base around your height disadvantage... So as the other said, go have fun, and you will eventually learn how to adapt...
     
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  5. PivotPunch

    PivotPunch Red Belt

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    Every striking art has it's own solution for every problem so that question is not really possible to answer it depends on your strengths. If you look at the statistics in any striking art taller guys will have a better chance of being at the top and at being champ but in every art shorter guys have some advantages and sometimes manage to overcome their disadvantage.

    I don't feel its worse with kicks involved at least i didn't feel that way when i did TKD. Kicks are only being thrown in single shots and they are easier to read and have a longer path. On the other hand yes they are longer but I don't feel that's the big issue especially if you are quicker on your feet than the taller person. With boxing you have the issue of the jab being in your face constantly with several jabs per second connecting to your face if you don't do the right things.
    I don't think kicks make it more difficult they make it just different
     
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  6. ARIZE

    ARIZE Blue Belt

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    @PivotPunch

    I will have to disagree with you there. In boxing, i can use body movement to avoid long range strikes and get close. Dips, bob and weave, slips, etc... if i try that in Muay Thai I'll have a knee or a shin waiting for me...
    I find straight kicks (teeps, side kicks) a pain in the ass to deal with, a lot more than jabs or crosses. Obviously a tall guy with a good jab is also a nightmare, but when we are speaking about ranges situation, i found kicks harder to deal with.

    And i will also disagree with kicks been thrown in single shots, specially in TKD. Obviously the combos are slower than punching ones, but they use a lot of them: roundhouse to side kick to back kick, drop kick to turning, roundhouse to 360, multiple roundhouse alternating right left...or even when they spam the same kick, without resetting it (foot touching the ground), like side kicks.
    And also, you mostly want to incorporate kicks inside punching combos, make them no more a single strike, but part of the whole combo...
     
  7. Sansara

    Sansara Blue Belt

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    Yes i would like to compete eventually. Nothing really serious , just a couple of amateur fights to feel the thrill of it.

    I think at the end of the day i just felt really frustrated with a bad sparring session against a taller guy.

    But i have a lot to improve, starting with my cardio , when we start sparring i am already completely wasted.
     
  8. PivotPunch

    PivotPunch Red Belt

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    But enough kickboxers and MMa fighters make headmovement work so saying it doesn't work in those sports isn't true. And even in MT Samart used a lot of headmovement.

    Tbf I didn't to TKD that seriously only on and off and only did light sparring but range wasn't the issue for me despite the poitn fighting nature of it.

    You can throw kicks quickly but there's always a pause and it's slower than a punch even a very quick kick.

    A good jabber will not just jab-pause-jab at least many wont but it's jab-jabjab-jab-jab-pause and within the jab combo there's only a very small window of opportunity to get on the offense yourself and sometimes often there isn't and you need to wait, set something up or reset.
    spinning strikes take even longer to land and are harder to disguise.

    And that side kick spam without putting your foot down hardly ever works and if it works it still doesn't have much power it works in TKD because it's basically modern fencing with legs where you need to be the first to touch the other person.

    Yes TKD guys are some of the skinniest lanky guys out of any striking art they are really comparable to fencers but a lot of it is not just because of kicks but because it has basically a fencing ruleset and is only "full contact" in theory.

    Point fighting kickboxers like Michael Page are also skinnier and longer than full contact fighters like K-1 guys. Another example is Kyokushin, kicks play a huge part and there are some short stocky fighters.

    Gokhan Saki is/was ( "was" when he was still active) a top 5 HW probably top 3 and he's about 5'11. Who was the last 5'11 HW in boxing in the top 5? Stiverne probably never really was top 5 but he held a belt and he's probably a little bit taller than Saki and naturally bigger the last one was probably Chagaev about 7 years ago.
    And at LW (and nbow probably FW) Roosmalen was/is top 3.
     
  9. j123

    j123 Pro Sherdogger 500-0-1

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    Boxing.

    When it comes to Muay Thai (and competing under their rules), the taller fighter is the dominant one. As a taller fighter they control 2/3 distances (kicking and clinching). Its not uncommon to find guys who are lanky and undersized. Its quite common for a 145er to be 5'10-6'0, and a 165er to be 6'2-6'4.

    Really at the end of the day, it comes down to how good of a fighter you are. I've seen short and stockier guys KO guys in MT (ammy), its swimming up a waterfall, but its not impossible; You do need to be prepared, not knowing the basics of clinching, checking, etc and going into a fight assuming your strengths will cover the gaps is ignorant not good. I've seen gyms who place a heavy emphasis on boxing have their fighters wrecked when demolished in the clinch, and suffer injuries (instinctively cross block the knees, and end up with a forearm fracture. Escaping out the wrong way, and getting kneed in the head, etc).
     
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  10. nateallan

    nateallan White Belt

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    Saenchai almost always gives up height and reach and yet is the most dominant Muay Thai fighter of the last 20 years.
     
  11. Pugilistic

    Pugilistic Red Belt

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    Yeah you just need experience and get better. I’m a shorter guy myself and I deal with taller guys all the time so I get your frustration. But taller guys also feel the frustration of fighting shorter guys who get up close and maul them on the inside. It just comes down to skill because some short guys are great at boxing at a distance while some taller guys know how to get leverage on the inside despite being at a disadvantage. Once I sparred the bantamweight champ and I felt the same frustration of being outranged despite the fact he was the same height as me, because he knew how to manipulate range better than me. I close the distance and guess what, he was better than me there too and despite my weight advantage, he was able to beat me there too because he knew how to use leverage better.
     
  12. j123

    j123 Pro Sherdogger 500-0-1

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    And he's an anomaly. Height in MT is the same with basketball, are there great players that are short? Sure, but to say height doesn't matter is just being ignorant. Besides, there is no one on the ammy circuit (what TS is looking to do), in the west that even mirrors Saenchai.
     
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  13. Sansara

    Sansara Blue Belt

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    You are right. And i think what i am doing wrong is try to play a distance game without having enough cardio to keep moving.
    Since i come from shotokan i try to play the keep away game, but at 5'7" and with trex arms that is not going to work.
    Will try to get more agressive and work on my bob and weaving skills
     
  14. Borass

    Borass Yellow Belt

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    As the shorter one, the important things, i think, is to always be in movement. As the shortest one, you have got more distance to reach your opponent: if you are static, he will see your attack coming when you begin your move to enter into your distance.
    Also, you have to "counter the counter". You must feint an attack and make him react, then countering the reaction. Long limbed opponents are nightmare for us, especially when kicking is allowed.
    I think, in a mma perspectiv, boxing or "dutch kickboxing" is the best style ... you need your 2 legs to cover long distance and kicking too much will exhaust you ...

    Of course, it's easier to tell it than to do it....

    In my opinion, short and stocky "guys" should always work their wrestling ! ;)
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2016
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  15. PivotPunch

    PivotPunch Red Belt

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    It is not even close to the same thing as basketball. Saenchai doesn't onyl give up height but size overall he's terribly outsized overall not just length wise.
    height matters it matters in boxing, MT kickboxing, TKD and everything but it obviously isn't the end to all things stirking either.

    There are even some short TKD fighters and in Olympic TKD height the average fighter is even longer and lankier than in boxing or MT since it is basically pointfighting.
    There is no one in the amateur circuit that resembles any top 10 MT fighter or they wouldn't fight on obscure amateur cards how is that even an argument.

    How many Mike Tysons are there in the amateur boxing scene (which is much bigger than the amateur MT scene)? That's the same kind of argument but at the same time how many Klitschkos are there in the amateur boxing scene and how many Dieselnoi are there in the amateur MT scene?

    Sagat Petchindyee beat Dieselnoi in MT and Dieselnoi wasnt just ultra tall but a top 2 ATG MT fighter. And Sagat was not super tall for his weight.
     
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  16. Kim Jong Un

    Kim Jong Un Absolute Boss

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    You can easily make up for a height difference with solid TKD:

     
  17. Edison Carasio

    Edison Carasio Excellence of execution belt Platinum Member

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    Systema

     
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  18. n.diazismylife1999

    n.diazismylife1999 Black Belt

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    I disagree with the people saying "when kicks are involved it's even worse."

    I've found that to be the exact opposite. If you're a good kicker, better than your opponent, you can make the reach disadvantage disappear completely.
     
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  19. panamaican

    panamaican Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Understanding range is far more important that what style you train. You're short, so you could play keep away if you've got the cardio or speed. But you could also train to be an inside fighter where your length doesn't matter as much. It's a question of which range you know how to fight in and keeping the fight there.

    Bobbing and weaving to maintain the distance is different, psychologically, from bobbing and weaving to close the distance.

    Also, if you're giving up reach then it becomes even more important to understand how to make your opponent do what you want him to do, regardless of range. Learn to move him left, right, forward, back. Control the ring, cage, mat and you dictate when his reach will matter and when it won't.
     
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  20. Tayski

    Tayski Stand-up Fighting

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    Goju Ryu Karate and Uechi Ryu Karate tend to suit short and stocky guys. But there is a lot of traditional techniques and a focus on Kata that you said you don't really like.
    You would however learn how to apply those techniques in partner drills and sparring more so than you would in Shotokan or Kyokushin where those techniques are taught in kihon and kata but without so much drilling it with partners.

    Otherwise I would say Muay Thai is also suited for short guys, considering the average size of Thai people and the fact the most competitive weight classes are under 70kg.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2016
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