Most athletic fighters ever.

[Woldog]

Aside from the fact that the Football player is clearly more of a bench player with reflexes like that, He touches up the "boxer" My guess is they're both in highschool and it's their first year in either sport.

 

[mozfonky]

Jim Brown was made a fool of by Ali a couple times but that was just limited to boxing, no tackling or wrestling moves. You'd have to go back to the older boxers to find ones who could hold their own grappling (as Dempsey could).

 

[mozfonky]

Lyle was 44-1 as an amateur boxer and a regional golden gloves champion. A regional champion isn't a national golden gloves champion, however. But, he still could box a bit despite being a decade removed according to the video. That and Ali allowed him to put on some showmanship in that exhibition. Many football players have wrestling backgrounds and coaches love that. In general wrestlers are dedicated, tough and tenacious.

ya, i was aware of that, I still mentioned in that thread how far gone ali really was (this is after both spinks fights) and how he went on to fight holmes and berbick, getting beat up in sparring by journeymen and even young welterweight Tommy Hearns had him stunned. This definitely was not a prime or even a healthy Ali.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Let's say some of the best lighter weight defensive fighters had to box against one of these huge NFL freak athletes. It wouldn't be sanctioned in the first place but hypothetically let's entertain the idea. The smaller boxer would largely benefit from a 4 rounder because it would surely increase his chance of going the distance. They would need to fully use their defensive skills, speed, reflexes, ringcraft, footwork and agility to evade their MUCH larger, stronger and more powerful opponent. One round of the larger man swinging and missing isn't hard to imagine, or even two or three, but eventually the smaller boxer will make a mistake and it's likely to only take one in such a scenario.

Relying on blocking isn't going to work when a guy that outweighs you by 100+ pounds is hitting your gloves with power shots, they'll blast through your guard, but evasive defense could work for a limited period of time or potentially even carry an elite defensive boxer the distance in a professional 4 rounder (those chances would be low imo). The larger man would be hellbent on cutting the ring off to walk the smaller boxer down while it would be the smaller man's job to avoid being cut off and to consistently escape with their consciousness. A much quicker more agile man with excellent footwork to prevent their ring cutting and their ability to find escape routes when momentarily in bad positions (against the ropes or stuck in the corner) would make the much larger man giving chase have to work hard to track them down.

The smaller man would have to hope that their opponent would gas out early or simply stop giving it full effort if they're not able to find any success & frustrate the shit out of them. A persistent much larger man would be far more likely to eventually catch them and due to the ridiculous size difference their increased puncher's chance would almost surely be a one-and-done affair. They would have to remain focused & persistent and make sure they don't punch themselves out knowing that the smaller man's margin for error is so thin. Ring size would be something that would need to be factored in as well.

 

[Woldog]

I was once sparring a cruiserweight and the force of his punch which was caught by my guard rocketed my elbow into my liver. I have tko'd myself.

 

[mozfonky]

i don't know, i just don't know, what you say makes sense and has been said many times but i don't think anyone has ever put it to the test. andd..., I have heard stories of boxers, small boxers, beating up 300 pound guys. One story was told to me by a 300 pound guy who i worked with, actually, he was probably closer to 350, he told me he got into it with a featherweight, the featherweight and he were at a bar and started mouthing off "i can kick your ass" he said the boxer then went and proved it, this was a guy who played highschool football and wrestled. So, i'm not entirely convinced when i've read, i think it was liebling? or someone like that who said any lightweight could be beaten by a fat guy in a bar who could just sit on him. I just don't know if it would be that easy everytime.

 

[mozfonky]

I was once sparring a cruiserweight and the force of his punch which was caught by my guard rocketed my elbow into my liver. I have tko'd myself.

part of that is mental, when a bigger guy touches you and moves you, it can intimidate you, that's why I'm glad i was used to it at a certain point. Not at first though, getting hit is not natural to most people. I think even with pads i wasn't enjoying taking punches from even some of the lame kung fu guys i was around, but, i knew i had to get used to that kind of thing and i did. However, in a sport with divisions, i suppose that kind of extreme stuff isn't necessary. I'm still glad i got myself used to a lot of stuff because i'm a small guy.

 

[mozfonky]

Let's say some of the best lighter weight defensive fighters had to box against one of these huge NFL freak athletes. It wouldn't be sanctioned in the first place but hypothetically let's entertain the idea. The smaller boxer would largely benefit from a 4 rounder because it would surely increase his chance of going the distance. They would need to fully use their defensive skills, speed, reflexes, ringcraft, footwork and agility to evade their MUCH larger, stronger and more powerful opponent. One round of the larger man swinging and missing isn't hard to imagine, or even two or three, but eventually the smaller boxer will make a mistake and it's likely to only take one in such a scenario.

Relying on blocking isn't going to work when a guy that outweighs you by 100+ pounds is hitting your gloves with power shots, they'll blast through your guard, but evasive defense could work for a limited period of time or potentially even carry an elite defensive boxer the distance in a professional 4 rounder (those chances would be low imo). The larger man would be hellbent on cutting the ring off to walk the smaller boxer down while it would be the smaller man's job to avoid being cut off and to consistently escape with their consciousness. A much quicker more agile man with excellent footwork to prevent their ring cutting and their ability to find escape routes when momentarily in bad positions (against the ropes or stuck in the corner) would make the much larger man giving chase have to work hard to track them down.

The smaller man would have to hope that their opponent would gas out early or simply stop giving it full effort if they're not able to find any success & frustrate the shit out of them. A persistent much larger man would be far more likely to eventually catch them and due to the ridiculous size difference their increased puncher's chance would almost surely be a one-and-done affair. They would have to remain focused & persistent and make sure they don't punch themselves out knowing that the smaller man's margin for error is so thin. Ring size would be something that would need to be factored in as well.

watching some of that sugar/shaq footage, sugar had no business letting shaq land anywhere near that much. Maybe i expect too much but a prime fighter shouldn't be that easy to hit by an amateur so realizing Shane was older and mentally shot at that point only kind of mollifies me. He still should have dominated more. I couldn't picture a peak Ray Leonard or Roy Jones doing that bad.

 

[Woldog]

part of that is mental, when a bigger guy touches you and moves you, it can intimidate you, that's why I'm glad i was used to it at a certain point. Not at first though, getting hit is not natural to most people. I think even with pads i wasn't enjoying taking punches from even some of the lame kung fu guys i was around, but, i knew i had to get used to that kind of thing and i did. However, in a sport with divisions, i suppose that kind of extreme stuff isn't necessary. I'm still glad i got myself used to a lot of stuff because i'm a small guy.

I've boxed since I was 12. This was at 25 years old lol. He literally punched my elbow into my liver. Nothing I could have done to stop it.

 

[mozfonky]

I've boxed since I was 12. This was at 25 years old lol. He literally punched my elbow into my liver. Nothing I could have done to stop it.

well, how small are you? i wasn't much more than a welter and i've boxed heavies, however, they weren't boxers, they were kickboxers so their hands weren't that good, still they outweighed me by a ton and it didn't really affect me that much other than, yes, being able to move me if the connected well but it wasn't enought to stop me. I could see that being different if i was getting hit by a young george foreman.

 

[Woldog]

well, how small are you? i wasn't much more than a welter and i've boxed heavies, however, they weren't boxers, they were kickboxers so their hands weren't that good, still they outweighed me by a ton and it didn't really affect me that much other than, yes, being able to move me if the connected well but it wasn't enought to stop me. I could see that being different if i was getting hit by a young george foreman.

I'm 68kg at the time I was 65kg. He was cruiser weight. Big Samoan guy who had dropped to fight cruiser, I'm used to fighting cruisers and heavies and find sparring guys my weight no problem regardless of their skill level, but a big boxer with some power rattles me around. I've played Rugby for 23 years and am used to getting crushed by big units.

 

[mozfonky]

thats about 140 right? well, every guys got different strengths, i'm sure you'd feel the power if you had to spar someone who could hit like edwin rosario just like i'd feel it if i was hit by a foreman, i'd probably be damaged badly.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

The significantly undersized boxer would be wise to immediately try and take away the far larger athlete's vision (or go to the groin hard or kidneys with those "veteran tactics" that many boxers have in their toolbox to cut larger fighters down to size). If this could be done very early then their chances would increase of not just avoiding getting caught but controlling the much larger athlete in the ring. The problem with this strategy would be that the boxer would have to open up in the first place, but most importantly, work far harder than would normally be the case due to the great disparity they'd have in both height and reach. They would need to get in range, land and get out without getting caught with anything significant by staying on clean 45 degree angles, staying defensively responsible while utilizing evasive tactics & by using their foot speed, sticking & moving. Their educated jab would need to be accurate, fast and stiff.

If the far smaller boxer could pull that off early then their chances would certainly increase significantly of not getting crushed by some athletic behemoth hellbent on walking through them in the first place. It really depends on the individuals in question, the size disparity and gap in athleticism. Working the liver relentlessly with a power jab would be another option particularly if the huge athlete is a lefty fighting southpaw.

 

[aries]

Why are you still talking about this? If you think a 6’6” 290lb+ pro athlete has no chance to land a punch on Vasyl Lomachenko, good for you. I’m literally saying one punch. Above the waist boxing rules.

You keep going on about a pro athlete as though that has some bearing on his skill as a boxer which is pretty much none unless you know of him having some experience? I'd be very surprised if the football player could land one clean blow on him. Maybe a body shot if the footballer was a bit more clever and realised that he'd never land anything on Lomas head. Elite pro boxers struggle to land clean head shots on him.

 

[Sunfish]

You keep going on about a pro athlete as though that has some bearing on his skill as a boxer which is pretty much none unless you know of him having some experience? I'd be very surprised if the football player could land one clean blow on him. Maybe a body shot if the footballer was a bit more clever and realised that he'd never land anything on Lomas head. Elite pro boxers struggle to land clean head shots on him.

My grandfather was in the navy in the war. There was a man on his ship who would draw a circle around himself and bet you your rum ration you couldn’t land a punch above his shoulders in a minute. I know these stories get embellished but apparently no one landed on him and he was an amateur champion. He wasn’t one of the atg best defensive fighters. So don’t talk to me as if I’ve slobbered out of the heavies and think it’s easy to punch anyone and that all that matters is size.

It is a really boring circular conversation but you keep quoting me. I also understand why matadors don’t normally get gored, why fencing is a lot more difficult than it looks and why small people who are high level martial artists tend to be able to disarm someone attacking them with a knife without ending up sliced and diced.

 

[mozfonky]

might not be so easy for a huge lumbering guy to hit a good boxer, even once with any kind of clean punch. Story goes that Ali had a couple situations with Jim Brown, the first was with bob arum in some park where Ali told jim to try to hit him, jim couldn't touch him, then ali started returning light slaps. the second was where they both put the gloves on and ali let jim work himself to a little tire and then started whomping on him. People still think Wilt could have taken Ali I wish it would have happened.

 

[Prefect]

Hector Commacho had the fasted hands I have ever seen. Roy Jones set people up. Commacho was so fast that I thought the video i saw was sped up. I felt bad for whoever was on the other end because they just had to eat it.

 

[mozfonky]

not only macho's hands, his whole body, his legs had so much spring, his body had speed, he could defy physics with some of his moves. Gil Clancy once said that he was also pfp the strongest fighter in the world, don't know about that but I do know he had a great chin and was never kayoed. Macho should have been up there with anyone ever but the drugs got him.

 

[aries]

My grandfather was in the navy in the war. There was a man on his ship who would draw a circle around himself and bet you your rum ration you couldn’t land a punch above his shoulders in a minute. I know these stories get embellished but apparently no one landed on him and he was an amateur champion. He wasn’t one of the atg best defensive fighters. So don’t talk to me as if I’ve slobbered out of the heavies and think it’s easy to punch anyone and that all that matters is size.

It is a really boring circular conversation but you keep quoting me. I also understand why matadors don’t normally get gored, why fencing is a lot more difficult than it looks and why small people who are high level martial artists tend to be able to disarm someone attacking them with a knife without ending up sliced and diced.

I don't get what you're saying now as it appears that you're in agreement with me. But if you're not then lets just agree to disagree: I don't think an elite football player could land cleanly on the best defensive professional boxer in the entire world, you do. But you went further and said the NFL player would 'work' him, that's just pure lol in my eyes.

 

[aries]

Aside from the fact that the Football player is clearly more of a bench player with reflexes like that, He touches up the "boxer" My guess is they're both in highschool and it's their first year in either sport.

Which one was the boxer..... lol

I can't actually believe you are comparing this 'boxer' to Vasyl Lomachenko who just won Ring mags FOTY and also the SRR award for FOTY.