More new millionaires, more wealth... why a taxcut?

Taxation isn't punishment, it's civic duty.

And those that benefit the most from society ought to pay the most for it.

Lol at you trying this reasoning

Is this where you are going to bring up corporate "welfare" as your reasoning as why the rich supposedly take so much more than the family getting more taxes back than paid
 
A partner at a law firm bills his employees at $300/hour and pays them $100/hour in addition to profiting from his own billing. But we think it's "fair" if that partner pays the same tax rate as the employees he is benefiting from?
yes.

Do we think companies that sell products benefit the same from roads that employees driving to work do?
you are asking the wrong person. I think every road should be a toll road. Pay for what you use is fair.
Do coal miners benefit just as much from digging coal that the owners of the operation do?


There are a million examples like this. The fact is owners of capital and/or high income folks simply benefit more from the system.
yes they benefit more, so they get taxed more. flat tax has them paying more already.
 
Lol at you trying this reasoning

Is this where you are going to bring up corporate "welfare" as your reasoning as why the rich supposedly take so much more than the family getting more taxes back than paid

You just brought up yourself and it's another good point.

Corporations take more from the government in the form subsidies, direct spending, and other incentives than all people get back in tax refunds.
 

Why?

you are asking the wrong person. I think every road should be a toll road. Pay for what you use is fair.

The answer is they benefit much, much more than regular people do, although everyone benefits. And that idea is dumb considering you would create unnecessary traffic for no reason.

yes they benefit more, so they get taxed more. flat tax has them paying more already.

You didn't explain why it is preferential to a progressive tax though. All you're saying is you want them to pay less.
 
Lol at you trying this reasoning

Is this where you are going to bring up corporate "welfare" as your reasoning as why the rich supposedly take so much more than the family getting more taxes back than paid

Because the only guarantee of wealth in this modern world is government backed.

Without a government the only wealth you could accrue is that you could physically defend.
 
What is beyond repair according to you? the debt is static while GDP is not.

Also, GDP is annual income, while debt is a constant. Better comparison to GDP is debt interest (about 1.29% in the most recent year, down from almost 3% when Reagan left office and over 3% when we had a bipartisan push to reduce it).
 
I agree w/ the corporate tax cut in his plan (that's just common sense, lower taxes negate the incentive to offshore or go the MNC route and perhaps force some of these Corps to pay more than 0), but aren't there already enough incentives and credits to help those that are wealthy?

not like these cats are taking the standard deduction if you feel me
 
It wasnt created to make people more wealthy either.



So by NOT taking their money thru taxes, you are making them MORE wealthy??? By letting them keep the money they already earned?
 
So by NOT taking their money thru taxes, you are making them MORE wealthy??? By letting them keep the money they already earned?

What is money? and how is it stored? how is it traded?

Without the US government the US dollar is as valuable as toilet paper. Without government enforcing laws and property you would be forced to defend every single piece of land, trade with solid currencies (gold, cacao beans, diamonds, w/e), and settle disputes by either arbitration or war.

You can avoid taxation by going into the shadow economy after all, dont use government for anything at all and they cant track and tax you.
 

Why should someone be taxed more for making more profit off someone's labor? You frame it in a way like they are undeserving of the profit.

The answer is they benefit much, much more than regular people do, although everyone benefits. And that idea is dumb considering you would create unnecessary traffic for no reason.
The reason to tax someone for using infrastructure isn't because it benefits them or not. It's to maintain the roads. If someone is using the road more, they pay more. If they are using heavy vehicles that are more damaging to the road, they pay more. It is extremely simple and logical.

And you are silly for thinking it would be a toll road like you envision. Obviously there are sensors that would monitor your usage of a highway. I can't believe you would even think otherwise.

You didn't explain why it is preferential to a progressive tax though. All you're saying is you want them to pay less.

Because the argument is about fairness. They already pay more, it is ridiculous to think they need to be paying at an even higher rate as well.
 
Why should someone be taxed more for making more profit off someone's labor? You frame it in a way like they are undeserving of the profit.

I never said they weren't deserving, not sure why that was your take away.

In my example that partner is benefiting more from the system, in that case, the education of the employees. So it seems fair to me that people who get more out of the system contribute more.

The reason to tax someone for using infrastructure isn't because it benefits them or not. It's to maintain the roads. If someone is using the road more, they pay more. If they are using heavy vehicles that are more damaging to the road, they pay more. It is extremely simple and logical.

The reason to tax to support infrastructure is because we all benefit from it's use and funding is required to build and maintain the roads. And yes, I agree with your last part just don't know why a massive installation and maintenance of a toll system is preferential to how we do it now.

And you are silly for thinking it would be a toll road like you envision. Obviously there are sensors that would monitor your usage of a highway. I can't believe you would even think otherwise.

It was just an example to illustrate that companies benefit more than employees. It just doesn't make sense to spend the money on installation, maintenance, administration, etc. when the way we do it works fine. I don't even see the benefit.

Because the argument is about fairness. They already pay more, it is ridiculous to think they need to be paying at an even higher rate as well.

I'm not suggesting we increase the tax rates. It sounds like you want to lower from current levels for top earners, and that's what I am saying is a bad idea.
 
I just played the stock market and did well, what do you think the true 1% were doing to gain all that money and power?



^None of this is true


The only thing you play is X-Box, and you still have to get permission to do that.
 
What is money? and how is it stored? how is it traded?

Without the US government the US dollar is as valuable as toilet paper. Without government enforcing laws and property you would be forced to defend every single piece of land, trade with solid currencies (gold, cacao beans, diamonds, w/e), and settle disputes by either arbitration or war.


You can avoid taxation by going into the shadow economy after all, dont use government for anything at all and they cant track and tax you.


WTF does this have to do with government taking money that you earn for the sole purpose of making sure 'people don't get too rich"?
 
Lol at being such a hater that you want to punish the successful that already pay way more than you and always will
You should look up the definition of "punish".

Hint: it would involve throwing people in jail, or taking away more money than they earned. Punishment involves someone being worse off than they were before. It doesn't involve them being richer than they were before, which is what happens in the real world.

Having those who benefit more from the system pay more into the system is not punishment, it's proper allocation of funding. They're still making more money.
 
This is an example of poor Trump supporters voting against their interests yet again. Many of them can't pay their bills and are on welfare but they defend tax cuts for billionaires because... MAGA
 
The reason to tax someone for using infrastructure isn't because it benefits them or not. It's to maintain the roads. If someone is using the road more, they pay more. If they are using heavy vehicles that are more damaging to the road, they pay more. It is extremely simple and logical.

Ok, using your logic who has more to lose due to fire? My modest house is a pittance compared to their mansion or factory - therefore they should pay more.

When the LA riots happened in the 90s, where did the police set up containment lines? Beverly Hills and West Hollywood? - therefore they should pay more.

That huge military budget protecting us from invasion or serving interest of our corporations? - ok they should pay more.

We could do a list like this all day long to show that nearly all of our socialistic entities are for the protection of the rich.
 
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WTF does this have to do with government taking money that you earn for the sole purpose of making sure 'people don't get too rich"?

???

Im pretty sure taxes are there to fund government, not to prevent people from getting too rich.

Government existence is the very reason a lot of people can get that much money, if you dont like it you can move to Somalia or some place with zero governance.

Or you can simply go "off the grid" and create your own currency.
 
I never said they weren't deserving, not sure why that was your take away.

In my example that partner is benefiting more from the system, in that case, the education of the employees. So it seems fair to me that people who get more out of the system contribute more.
The undeserving part comes from the tone of your post. Where it seems like the owners are making profit at the expense of their workers, with the implication that they are doing nothing to get the 200% profit they are charging. Maybe you aren't thinking you mean that, but it comes across that way.

They are not benefiting more from 'the system' whatever that means. They are benefiting more from the fact that they are able to leverage other people's labor in a way their employees did not choose to do for themselves. For whatever reason that is.

Again, they are contributing more with a flat tax. You don't want them to contribute more, you want them to contribute disproportionately more.

The reason to tax to support infrastructure is because we all benefit from it's use and funding is required to build and maintain the roads. And yes, I agree with your last part just don't know why a massive installation and maintenance of a toll system is preferential to how we do it now.


It was just an example to illustrate that companies benefit more than employees. It just doesn't make sense to spend the money on installation, maintenance, administration, etc. when the way we do it works fine. I don't even see the benefit.

The point of the post is what is fair. What is fair is to tax the road and some similar infrastructures based on usage. Does a road deteriorate from lack of use? I mean, yes, it still has to be maintained a bit if not a single car drives on it. But obviously higher usage increases this.

I am not saying that this is better than what we have now. It is purely an argument from fairness. Is it 'fair' that a millionaire widow who cannot drive anymore has to pay for roads that she doesn't have the ability to use? She has no ability to derive benefit from the roads for herself, unless we get very abstract and argue that her kids could drive to her and visit her or something like that.

I'm not suggesting we increase the tax rates. It sounds like you want to lower from current levels for top earners, and that's what I am saying is a bad idea.
That's fine if you don't want to increase tax rates, I don't either.

The argument we generally hear is that we should increase the higher tax rates to make the rich pay their 'fair share', the obvious counter argument is how that is not fair. I don't think the current tax brackets are too bad. Far from a socialist system. But I am worried that the very existence of a progressive tax system will get worse in the future. It's not a slippery slope to think that the masses will call for higher taxes on the higher earners.


Ok, your logic who has more to lose due to fire? My modest house is a pittance compared to their mansion or factory - therefore they should pay more
Potentially losing more due to a fire has no effect on if they should pay more. Everyone equally derives the passive benefit of a fire department.

That huge military budget protecting us from invasion or serving interest of our corporations? - ok they should pay more.
The military doesn't work for the corporations.
 
The military doesn't work for the corporations.


Edit: You're right. Its more of the CIA and covert ops.

But we do have bases all over the world to protect American (business) interests.
 
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