More boxers should fight unorthodox

[wilddeuces]

Technically, they fought orthodox as left-handers. The downside is neither man had a right hand that was to be feared, it was more just a strong jab from the rear side.

 

[mozfonky]

Yes but Freddie Roach says a good hook is more important than the straight right. Of course if the jab/hook are with the dominant hand that will give you a headstart on developing them.

two good hands is better than a good left hook, all due respect to freddie.

 

[mozfonky]

southpaws are a problem for orthodox fighters for a lot of reasons, the biggest one is that they are used to fighting someone in the orthodox stance and the other guy isn't used to fighting a lefty. then, they just make everything ugly, both lead feet naturally step on each other and lead to accidental kds. same problem with the lead hands/jabs, they both get in each others way, also, i've seen a lot of knockdowns happen that were really just balance shots, the punches come at an angle where there's no balance to absorb the blow of a cross, and it works both ways, i think swea peas knockdowns were often from this. they say the way to fight a southpaw is to place your lead foot outside of his lead foot so that your lead right and left hook can be used, generally dispensing with the jab. also, they say it's better to circle to the left doesn'[t it all sound like a pain in the ass? ali had one of his toughest defenses of his first title reign against karl mildenberger, he went against his corners advice and circled to his right, which, he usually didn['t do when fighting a ortho fighter, which is what your'e suppossed to do. angie dundee was pissed the whole night but ali said he thought it would be easier to line up his straight right by circling that way.. anyway, one more thing, switching stances shouldn't be done, hagler spoke on this it was obvious he was speaking of ggg but he didn't say any names, all he said was, his ability to go back and forth took a lot of work. it's not something you should do just to do but people are stupid, i'm sure a million fighters after bob fitszimmons threw his solar plexus punch tried it out too and didn't knock anyone out with it.

 

[aries]

I do wonder if its possible to create the kind of angles lomenchenko does but while fighting orth vs orth. It's seemingly alot easier for him being a southpaw since he can slip into that grey area outside the lead hand. But, being orth vs orth, I just don't see there being an easy way to get there without stepping out of stance or using alot of energy to get there.

Yes it is harder to do because if ortho vs ortho you'd pivot on your left foot but that's not enough to get you to their shoulder, you need to step forward with your right foot as well to get close. It's a slower maneuver basically but it can still be done. With southpaw vs ortho the fighter only has to pivot on their front foot to take them outside and close to their opponents lead shoulder. It can be done in an instant giving you more time to attack and less time for your opponent to react.

Another way to do it if by stance shifting. From ortho step your rear foot through so it becomes your lead. From there you can either attack from the opposite stance or turn your hips toward them and go back into an ortho stance. The only problem with this it's a bit slow as you have to take a big step forward, you are vulnerable mid switch and can be caught flat footed if a good opponent can times you.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Yes it is harder to do because if ortho vs ortho you'd pivot on your left foot but that's not enough to get you to their shoulder, you need to step forward with your right foot as well to get close. It's a slower maneuver basically but it can still be done. With southpaw vs ortho the fighter only has to pivot on their front foot to take them outside and close to their opponents lead shoulder. It can be done in an instant giving you more time to attack and less time for your opponent to react.

Another way to do it if by stance shifting. From ortho step your rear foot through so it becomes your lead. From there you can either attack from the opposite stance or turn your hips toward them and go back into an ortho stance. The only problem with this it's a bit slow as you have to take a big step forward, you are vulnerable mid switch and can be caught flat footed if a good opponent can times you.

Good post with a lot of good info here.

You could potentially use a hop-pivot once you're already close enough to them and your lead leg is outside theirs to clear it quickly and establish the position that way. I was going to say use a shift (step through) myself. That's the issue with shifting is that transitional period switching from one stance to another temporarily can be risky because, as you noted, it's an opportunity to get caught by your opponent.

I'd initiate a clinch once I got inside, trap their near arm (lead) and look to get my lead foot stepped around theirs (ie., a bodylock with their lead arm in would do the trick to control them and to create space for my leg to lace it through). It may work on the first try because your opponent would probably just think you're trying to rest or break their rhythm but your actual goal would be to create that dominant angle on the outside and work the T-line/T-position once you break, assuming you can do it quickly enough before the ref breaks you cleanly and your opponent isn't a beast with his clinchwork to prevent it in the first place. They'd get hip to that immediately though (you'd think) and so would the ref most likely. It would look awkward and outright funky but a fighter with a decent wrestling background could make it look relatively smooth if they've practiced/drilled it enough in sparring.

 

[makedansure]

I think what Freddie means is that at an advanced level, he favors an excellent jab and an excellent hook over an excellent jab and an excellent straight, not necessarily that it is better. The 1-2-1-2 can only get you so far, as the 2 is more of a long punch and can be avoided moreso than an excellent lead hook. Mastery over the 1 and 3 open up some advanced combinations that can really throw off the best of the best, same hand combinations are always tricky.

Personally I've recently started to train southpaw, and it's frustrating how weak my straight left feels. My lead right hook is definitely stronger than my left, but my left is much more accurate, quicker, and has more pop I feel.

 

[randomg1t]

As Red Smith once observed "All fighters believe southpaws should be drowned at birth"

Southpaws are evil. I spar with a southpaw, i hate him

meh, it's a matter of training for it. when i first started out, the only person i sparred with was a southpaw. never once have i felt that lefties are any more problematic than right handed guys.

the issue here is that people often don't have any southpaws to work with, so they're completely baffled when they're standing in front of one. but if you actually have a few in your gym as you're starting out, it works out just fine.

 

[aries]

meh, it's a matter of training for it. when i first started out, the only person i sparred with was a southpaw. never once have i felt that lefties are any more problematic than right handed guys.

the issue here is that people often don't have any southpaws to work with, so they're completely baffled when they're standing in front of one. but if you actually have a few in your gym as you're starting out, it works out just fine.

Very true. Southpaws just present a different set of problems

 

[mozfonky]

i just watched Jones/Tarver 1 for the first time in over ten years, couple things stuck out, one was how tarver didn't look any better than the slew of light heavyweights Jones fought, ungainly, not too active and Jones looked horrible, legs were not there, he got hurt laying on the ropes, he didn't really throw many sharp punches, he won clearly I think but he was hurt a couple times. The southpaw factor was, Tarvers lead scored effectively, marked Jones up for the first time, caught jones many times, Jones did manage to fight the way he should fight a southpaw, left foot outside tarvers right, threw lots of lead rights, followed up with either a second right or a left hook, even threw some great lead right hooks to the abdomen. Jones fought lots of southpaws so he was used to fighting them, what made him look bad was his reflexes looked slow, his legs weren't there, his stamina was not there but he deserved the win. overall, technically, he did the right things with a southpaw.

 

[Hagler]

not a good idea, delahoya is a converted southpaw, he had a useless right hand, it was one of the major weaknesses he had, a one handed fighter has his work cut out for him. He isn't the only one, joe frazier and gerry cooney are converted southpaws, rumours were that tyson was too, that one seems a little doubtful though. No, it's better to have the weaker hand forward to use as a jab, to develop the power punches that it can and then have the full body power of the dominant hand.

Hagler was a converted southpaw too. He wrecked guys with the lead hand. That's what Leonard noticed and he stayed away from the right.

On a side note isn't Ward a natural lefty who fought orthodox ? When he fought Dawson it was converted orthodox vs converted lefty.

 

[Manassamaulerx]

Lomachenko is a converted southpaw. He uses it pretty well to his advantage. That's what lets him get so quickly to the outside flank against orthodox fighters so he can launch a blind side attack.

Being to switch between orthodox and southpaw is a useful skill to have. Terrence Crawford makes good use of his southpaw stance when he switches. Kid Galahad also switches his stance a lot and it really confuses his opponents because they don't know where the next attack is coming from.

Did not know that about Lomachenko good info