MMA fans and the obsession of the GOAT

[Congo66]

Messi never lead Argentina to win a WC. As opposed to Maradona. So Maradona > Messi.

So it's Pele then, drugs bans exclude you from GOAT consideration.

 

[Gamer2k4]

I know that it is a discussion in every sport, but I feel that there will never be a clear GOAT in MMA. It's a very unpredictable sport where anyone can be knocked out (JJ and Rose. Just an example) or their style can be neutralized by a different style (Maia and Woodly. Agian, just an example). Why do you think that as MMA fans we feel the need to constantly debate the GOAT? Do you feel that we do it more than other sports? If so, why or why not?

You're confusing the flavor of the month with an actual "greatest of all time" fighter. MMA is unpredictable, sure, but GOAT takes that into account, because it has the full context of all fights before and after the flukes. We're talking Fedor with a decade of dominance, or GSP with belts in two divisions and only two early losses, both avenged.

If anyone is talking about the GOAT status of a current fighter based on his or her last two or three fights, they're talking nonsense.

 

[Hoop]

Messi never lead Argentina to win a WC. As opposed to Maradona. So Maradona > Messi.

Ah, you bastard. Ehh, back to square one now.

I thought that was a weird little rant by Ronaldo the other week about being the best player in the world at the moment. I think he's better in the air than Messi, but Messi isn't a slouch in the air. That header he scored against United in the CL final a few years back was a peach.

 

[MacGregor]

It's not an obsession it's just fans giving back to Fedor for being the GOAT.

 

[JackSchtotll]

Messi in soccerball.

Anyway, the whole GOAT debate is a never ending one. Probably best to decide for yourself who is the GOAT and leave it at that.

That's the stupidity of this topic. If you enter soccer circles, you will not get "Messi" as a simple answer. People will pull for whichever guy, for whatever reason, usually reflecting their own vanity.

 

[weed]

It's not an obsession it's just fans giving back to Fedor for being the GOAT.

 

[JackSchtotll]

The only thing more ghey than GOAT debate is the P4P debate.

The HW champ > everyone else. No one gives a shit that your house cat is more agile than the tiger because in the real world we know who gets eaten.

A lot of the p4p stuff is to market the smaller guys....say they are skilled and what not. The whole thing is quite artificial: a lot of sherbros really believe HWs are unskilled morons. The think that magically, all the movements and speed someone like MM can pull off, he'd still be able to perform if he were a 230lb guy. They don't understand scaling laws.

 

[MuddyFugger]

I know that it is a discussion in every sport, but I feel that there will never be a clear GOAT in MMA. It's a very unpredictable sport where anyone can be knocked out (JJ and Rose. Just an example) or their style can be neutralized by a different style (Maia and Woodly. Agian, just an example). Why do you think that as MMA fans we feel the need to constantly debate the GOAT? Do you feel that we do it more than other sports? If so, why or why not?

Remember P4P discussion? A few years ago, 1 out of 4 threads were p4p and now they are gone. Goat is the new p4p talk and it's already fading..

 

[KYS]

Wasn't by accident, I simply realize that most people here are referring to football as "soccer".

Some even call it povertyball because you don't need much to play it. As if that was a bad thing lol.

 

[tenniswhiz]

Messi never lead Argentina to win a WC. As opposed to Maradona. So Maradona > Messi.

But that’s just one little bit of criteria.

People criticize Dan Marino for similar reasons.

You gotta have a great team in a team sport, no matter how great any one individual is.

 

[Liquid Smoke]

It's still a very new sport. Someday someone will put an end to this stupid debate. Maybe that new kid Erick Silva.

 

[Shaddows]

I know that it is a discussion in every sport, but I feel that there will never be a clear GOAT in MMA. It's a very unpredictable sport where anyone can be knocked out (JJ and Rose. Just an example) or their style can be neutralized by a different style (Maia and Woodly. Agian, just an example). Why do you think that as MMA fans we feel the need to constantly debate the GOAT? Do you feel that we do it more than other sports? If so, why or why not?

IMO this is just something that happens in every sport.
It is amplified in MMA because it is a single sport, and it is also a fighting sport.

Yes, everyone can be knocked out. But if you fall asleep in 6 fights straight (like Chuck), then it hurts your plea for greatness.
Yes, style makes fights. Yet some GOAT contenders fought against their worst stylistic styles and heroically persevered (i.e. Silva & Sonnen)... which is a sign of greatness.... or should I say GOATness???

So that is why people will always debate this. Especially in a sport where one should literally beat all others to become great.

 

[Hoop]

That's the stupidity of this topic. If you enter soccer circles, you will not get "Messi" as a simple answer. People will pull for whichever guy, for whatever reason, usually reflecting their own vanity.

Yeah, spot on. I'd never get into a debate about the topic regarding any sport. I genuinely have no sort of supporting ties to Barcelona or Argentina. But for me, he's the best player I ever saw.

Aside from all the other guff that folk use as their criteria for the GOAT of whatever sport, I see a lot of people picking Messi over Ronaldo because of their personalities.

It's odd how people get so amped up by the topic and it really is a dick waving type contest where people are trying to show they know more about the sport than the other person(s)

 

[JackSchtotll]

Yeah, spot on. I'd never get into a debate about the topic regarding any sport. I genuinely have no sort of supporting ties to Barcelona or Argentina. But for me, he's the best player I ever saw.

Aside from all the other guff that folk use as their criteria for the GOAT of whatever sport, I see a lot of people picking Messi over Ronaldo because of their personalities.

It's odd how people get so amped up by the topic and it really is a dick waving type contest where people are trying to show they know more about the sport than the other person(s)

It is a "dick waving" contest....that's some social science's BS I'll write down, but sports are kind of a macho expression of society. Debating on which community, team, neighbourhood has the best at something is machos arguing with machos about the old question of who has the bigger dick.

At any rate, you said something important: the best you have watched. Old farts can throw 1950s football on our faces and claim that Puskas was "the founder of modern football" hence he was the best ever. I heard this from a couple of old Hungarians. From that to Messi, you have everything: Pele, Maradona, Cruyff, Ronaldo, the other Ronaldo, the many fucking Ronaldos and so on. And they debate just like people here: "ah, he won this and that, he has one more such cup than your guy" bla bla bla.

In the end, you know who the best is? The one you think is the best. You saw them play and you think Messi is the best? He is the best for you and nobody can say otherwise.

Same for MMA. "He avenged his losses", "he ko'd people with a standing back elbow", "he was dominant", "never popped for PEDs". Who cares? Watch the sport, see who you think is the best, part of it is what impresses you, part of it is what you think is more important and that's it.

For example, I am far more impressed by anything that happens at HW because they can't fight people smaller than themselves. So, I grew up watching Tyson and he is the "best ever" for me. Then I did watch boxing history and so on, and frankly, I put Ali as the best and not Sugar Ray, just because Ali was a HW.

 

[P4PSHERGOAT]

It's no different in MMA than in any other sport. Who's the greatest in boxing? Who knows. Who's the greatest in soccer? Who knows.

What about basketball?

 

[JackSchtotll]

Yes by a VERY long way.

Football (soccer) the biggest sport in the world by a VERY long way and it's not really discussed. Pele, Maradona, Messi, Ronaldo it's probably one of them but in similar football forums I'm part of it hardly ever gets discussed but here it comes up several times a day every day.

Are the soccer forum people less annoying about this too?

 

[loisestrad]

What about basketball?

Who knows.

 

[P4PSHERGOAT]

Who knows.

Well I don’t agree with it but it is commonly accepted who the goat is. You’ll be lynched if you say someone else other than that person. Again, I don’t agree with that but oh well

 

[wompuscatwilly]

When someone suggests a fighter who's only been active for a few years as GOAT

It takes a long, dominant run over the span of 5-10 years undefeated to even be in discussions. I do think it's normal though TS for fans to want to crown someone the best. Especially when it's so subjective.

 

[wompuscatwilly]

What about basketball?

Bill Russell
Michael Jordan