Mixing Styles With The Same Weapons But Different Methods?

Why constantly delete posts that violate the rules without giving yellow to the user?

There's no beef. People made fun of @spacetime for shitty technique and no one gave a damn, some people can't take critique, there's no way for them to improve anyway so they're stuck with confirming themselves by taking on the guys that are trying to improve.
@aerius did say that I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about and then backed out so I don't have any comments for that.

The same trolls that hijacked my threads reported me for shitposting back while I didn't report their countless more shitposts, how about that?

This subforum is quickly becoming one of those advertising platforms and I'm probably not going to bother again.
 
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We didn't make fun of spacetime for his poor technique, we made fun of him for his poor technique and his complete and utter rejection of any critique that didn't make him seem like some martial arts wunderkind. You'd point out a critique, he'd call you a noob and point to a professional fighter that made the same mistake as if that meant that he could get away with the same mistake. The fact that he refused to post any videos longer than 3 seconds also helped.

The issue isn't with someone who is trying to improve, that's fine. It's people using the forum as a way to validate their ego without any intent of listening to critique.
 
georgegreece said:
I'm still waiting for @aerius explanation.
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Sorry, I had you on ignore because I already have enough idiots to deal with.

If you want to know how I think @shincheckin can improve his kick, look at his base leg during the kick and his kicking leg on the retraction from the kick. If you still can't figure it out based on what I've posted in this thread, you'll go right back on my ignore list.
 
aerius said:
I started TKD in my youth and stayed with it until I was most of the way through high school. Later on in my 20s I took up kickboxing and Muay Thai.
In TKD, the kicking leg comes straight up into a chamber, then the base leg & hips are turned to align the kick to the target, then you release the kick. For those not familiar with TKD, this is what it looks like.


My kickboxing and MT instructors hated the way I threw round kicks. What they taught was similar to the way Bas Rutten throws his round kicks, but worse since they got the footwork and mechanics wrong. Bas makes the kick work because he steps to the side and plants his base leg at an angle to open up the hips so that he can whip the kicking leg through, my instructors didn't teach that. They basically wanted me to be a ballerina or something and somehow lift & swing my kicking leg wide & around to the target without pivoting or stepping the base leg enough to properly open up the hips. So I'm going to pull my kicking leg off the ground and swing it in a wide arc to the target with my hips & base leg totally out of position? Ah, no. (sadly, this is how far too many MMA/kickboxing/MT places teach their round kicks).

So after trying and failing badly at the way they wanted me to round kick, I started "cheating" it back towards a TKD style. I didn't use a full chamber, but my leg would come up with a bit more of a bend in the knee than they wanted. I also went more straight up instead of out & around, and used the pivot & hip turn from TKD to open up my hips and drive the kick through the target. I got it as close to TKD as I could without having the instructors yell at me for doing it wrong, to me it felt a lot faster, more balanced, and powerful than what I was being taught.

So here I was for years thinking I had a hybrid TKD/MT round kick, that was until I started watching youtube videos of Thai stadium fights. And that's when I noticed that some Thai fighters have a round kick that was quite similar to what I was doing, Ole Kiatoneway and Singdam Kiatmoo9 are good examples I've seen of that style. Then a few more years go by and Sylvie wrote an article on what was coined the "golden kick", and I'm like "oh, dear, god. I somehow taught myself to kick like a Thai thanks to TKD".
http://8limbs.us/muay-thai-thailand/golden-kick-how-to-improve-your-thai-kick
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AndyMaBobs said:
That 'golden kick' is the standard way my gym has always taught the round kick. I HATE the baseball bat approach, I get that some people say that it's good to learn both, but being realistic, you've got the muscle memory for one and you'll fire that one on instinct all the time, they're not different enough in the way that a teep and a mae geri are.

It's funny the ways that western teaches misinterpret Thai techniques. I also like the misconception that muay thai is all about low kicks.
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That's interesting because I learned to throw a kick in a way that's very similar. The way it was broken down for me was that the kicking leg comes up in a chamber with the kicking foot not coming higher than the knee of the supporting knee. So a low chamber.

Then you drive and pivot through the support leg to power the kick through the range of motion.

The important intermediary step is that as your support leg pivots through the first 90 degrees, the kicking leg stays in the same position. The knee pointing forward, foot down, etc. That's the difficult part, rotating the pivot leg without changing the kicking knee's position/direction. That's how you open the hips for the kick. The initial rotation should feel like it's pushing the kicking hip forward and a stretch in the groin.

So, the intermediary point would have your left leg supporting foot and knee pointing to the left while the right kicking leg, knee, and foot are still facing forward.

Then you turn the hip over and whip the kick through the final range of motion.

Done in a fast, smooth fashion it sounds very similar to what you are both describing.
 
panamaican said:
That's interesting because I learned to throw a kick in a way that's very similar. The way it was broken down for me was that the kicking leg comes up in a chamber with the kicking foot not coming higher than the knee of the supporting knee. So a low chamber.

Then you drive and pivot through the support leg to power the kick through the range of motion.

The important intermediary step is that as your support leg pivots through the first 90 degrees, the kicking leg stays in the same position. The knee pointing forward, foot down, etc. That's the difficult part, rotating the pivot leg without changing the kicking knee's position/direction. That's how you open the hips for the kick. The initial rotation should feel like it's pushing the kicking hip forward and a stretch in the groin.

So, the intermediary point would have your left leg supporting foot and knee pointing to the left while the right kicking leg, knee, and foot are still facing forward.

Then you turn the hip over and whip the kick through the final range of motion.

Done in a fast, smooth fashion it sounds very similar to what you are both describing.
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That sounds about right to me. I was taught a slightly more simple 'kick up and over'. I've found it can be taught a few ways but they all end up looking the same by the end if you've got it going right. Although I don't TEND to step as much as I do pivot straight out - but that's mainly because I've been trying to work my balance and throwing quicker without having to do the step - in case I get caught going backwards.
 
AndyMaBobs said:
That sounds about right to me. I was taught a slightly more simple 'kick up and over'. I've found it can be taught a few ways but they all end up looking the same by the end if you've got it going right. Although I don't TEND to step as much as I do pivot straight out - but that's mainly because I've been trying to work my balance and throwing quicker without having to do the step - in case I get caught going backwards.
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The "up & over" method is what I ended up with as well, the kicking leg goes up and the timing of the pivot & hip turn sets the height of the kick. I don't think I have as much of a defined intermediary step as @panamaican since my instructors wouldn't let me go that far away from what they were teaching, but I think the end result and overall method of the kick is pretty close.
 
AndyMaBobs said:
That sounds about right to me. I was taught a slightly more simple 'kick up and over'. I've found it can be taught a few ways but they all end up looking the same by the end if you've got it going right. Although I don't TEND to step as much as I do pivot straight out - but that's mainly because I've been trying to work my balance and throwing quicker without having to do the step - in case I get caught going backwards.
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aerius said:
The "up & over" method is what I ended up with as well, the kicking leg goes up and the timing of the pivot & hip turn sets the height of the kick. I don't think I have as much of a defined intermediary step as @panamaican since my instructors wouldn't let me go that far away from what they were teaching, but I think the end result and overall method of the kick is pretty close.
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You should be able to do it without stepping forward mechanically, although I tend to rock into it rather than step with a push off the back leg to start my momentum.

Also, I went into a lot of detail on the intermediary position because that's how karate made me think about techniques. Overly detailed steps for each part of a technique and then the assumption that you smooth it out and speed it up with tons of reps for real life application.
 
Firas said on JRE that it’s super difficult to teach the mechanics of one style if the fighter is very accustomed to another. E.g. teaching a TKD guy to throw Muay Thai kicks
 
georgegreece said:
@Blue_Lou nop kicks are almost the same WHEN THROWN PROPERLY
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I mean throwing kicks was his exact example. I’m not too familiar with either one but apparently there’s enough of a difference to make it a recurring problem that he talks about
 
@Blue_Lou that problem started when tkd , karate e.t.c became sports and they started handing out black belts like candies.
 
The skeleton has proper kicking form I won't comment anything else since the yellow.
 
kicks.jpg
 
yikes looks like alot of stuff going down in here.

My input would be not too over complicate things.

"pick your leg up at 45 degrees celcious, point your bit toe, curl your pinky toe, exhale, inhale, kick, harness your chi"

The way I kick, is to step to the side, and swing the leg up and over as everyone else has already mentioned.

Spacetime posted a video of one of bas ruttens instructionals awhile back, and it got deleted and I cannot find it since. Its Bas Ruettens kick technique. I like this way alot and think it was a great instructional and thats how I kick. What I found interesting and where i differ slightly, is that Bas likes to kick around, i like to kick "up". This has already been discussed here in depth as well not too long ago on up vs around. I think its best to use both ways depending on the situation etc.

here is a short clip of it, but i cannot find the full video, if anyone has it, please share.

 
@aerius you're on the ignore list as well
no mention about hip movement and timing, knee extension and timing, penetration step positioning and angle, lumbar extension e.t.c. all these need to be addressed when throwing a kick
 
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