Mix Creatine and Thermogenic question

Discussion in 'Dieting / Supplement Discussion' started by One Time, Jul 2, 2008.

  1. One Time Lets make that money!

    One Time
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    I've gained mass, strength and a little weight during my first month of being on creatine. I'm meeting my short term goal of gaining strength and building lean muscle mass. I plan on staying on the creatine for another month and a half.

    My long term goal, of course, is to lose weight while still maintaining the mass and strength I've built up. I eat right, work out daily and take all the right supplemnents. (Multi, fish oil, protein shakes, 6 meals -a -day etc.)

    I've done a lot of research and have found conflicting reports on mixing creatine with a thermogenic.

    So, my question to all of you is this.

    Would mixing creatine monohydrate and a thermogenic like LIPO6 be counterproductive? Can I take these two simultaneously or should I finish with the creatine before I go to the LIPO?
     
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  2. joshetc butthole hurts from teh gay

    joshetc
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    Maybe you should re-evaluate why you need something like Lipo6. Odds are it isn't even required to reach your goals.
     
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  3. B3rserk3R Brown Belt

    B3rserk3R
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    It's been pretty well established (and is somewhere in the FAQ) that you don't need to cycle off creatine. Just take 5g (one teaspoon) a day until you die. As such I can't see how any thermogenic would mess with it. That's like saying you couldn't take said thermogenic while consuming red meat.
     
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  4. Ian Coe Professional Fighter

    Ian Coe
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    -Weight gain will probably, depending on your diet and calorie balance, be from water weight
    - You don't need to cycle creatine. Maybe for the sake of it every year stop taking it for a few weeks/month, but your body won't degrade its response. It's the same as eating high quality steak every day (in regards to the creatine intake, I'm not talking about other micro nutrient levels)
    - I don't see a issue with mixing a thermogenic with creatine. It's not like they work on the same pathways (although there is alwasy some overlap).
     
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  5. You don't need to cycle creatine if you're not having any problems with it and if you're a healthy person, you should not have any to begin with.

    I don't know about LIPO, so I'm guessing it is a fat burner. I'm not a big fan of fat burners, but if used correctly, they can be an aid. I don't see a conflict jumping out, maybe just the misconception that creatine makes you big.

    Creatine goes into the cells of the muscle and takes water in with it, giving some size and weight. If you want to cut that water weight, say for a fight, you could stop creatine a weak before the fight and start dehydration techniques to lose that water. Keep in mind that if you're running a fat burner on top of the dehydration techniques, you need to pay attention as the effect can be strong and potentially harmful.

    The weight here that is related to creatine is water weight, by water retention, not fat. If you are not worried about making *weight* for a fight then you need *not* be worried about losing *weight*, but rather losing *fat*.

    In fact, more water in the body makes you look bigger with bigger muscles, and you are healthier because you are not dehydrating yourself, you are doing the opposite. If your intention is health and body composition, you want that water. You don't need to cut weight, but cut fat. Losing that water will not make you look much less fat because flab is flab.

    On the other hand, bigger muscles hold fat better, like a bigger frame. The fat is more evenly spread out so a higher body fat % looks better on a guy with bigger muscles.

    15% BF on a guy 6' 200 lbs looks a lot better than 15%@ 6' 150 lbs.

    Creatine gives a bit of size from the water retension, but the strength and real muscle gains are because you are adding more creatine phosphate to your diet, giving your muscles more energy source to do more work. More work, better gains.
     
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  6. One Time Lets make that money!

    One Time
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    Man, you guys are awesome. Thanks for the responses.

    My plan was to use creatine for a short duration, but after reading the faq's along with your responses, I'll probably stick with the 5g a day schedule with no break.

    The LIPO I was thinking as just an aid in cutting some weight a little quicker. This would just be a temporary supplement for a month or less. According to the manufacturer, (and I take this with a grain of salt) LIPO6 addresses problem areas such as stomach and back. I am 6'0' 195 right now 13.5% body fat and hoping to get to 175 by October without burning off any muscle.

    Again, thanks for the responses. I will mix in the thermo/fat burner starting next week and post to this thread again to let you know how it went.
     
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  7. One Time Lets make that money!

    One Time
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    double
     
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  8. anaconda Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

    anaconda
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    The problem with mixing creatine and thermogenics/fat burners is due to the increased risk of dehydration.
     
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  9. anaconda Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

    anaconda
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    So your goal is to get to around 3% BF?
     
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  10. TopCat The Most Tip-top

    TopCat
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    My experience with this topic is with Berardi's Get Shredded Diet. He recommends a thermogenic and creatine as two of the supps to be taken concurrently.
     
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  11. One Time Lets make that money!

    One Time
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    double post...what's goin on?
     
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  12. One Time Lets make that money!

    One Time
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    lol

    175 is the weight I was at when I was in the best shape of my life. I'm a little more musclebound now so I guess I will have to burn some muscle to get there.

    Also, 13.5% bodyfat is what I got from one of those bodyfat scales...my guess is that it may be off by a percent or 5.
     
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  13. One Time Lets make that money!

    One Time
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    Thanks...I will look into this.
     
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  14. anaconda Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

    anaconda
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    yeah definitely the scale is off if you can get to 175 or that shouldnt be your target.

    I was just going by the numbers you gave :)
     
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  15. Ian Coe Professional Fighter

    Ian Coe
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    That could probably be offset by a single glass (maybe a litre to be safe) of water.

    Also, wouldn't the increased water retention by the creatine offset the dehydration risk
     
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  16. JoeKessell White Belt

    JoeKessell
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    You shouldn't experience dehydration with running thermos and creatine concurrently.
     
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  17. anaconda Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

    anaconda
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    well if that was true than creatine alone shouldnt ever create dehydration risks. From what I understand, though, is that creatine actually draws water away from other parts of the body and into the muscle cells which causes the volumization. However, you are still taking that water away from other organs. Add in a thermogenic that can increase the risk of dehydration by itself, and you have a double dose - you need to up your water intake on both these products alone, so imagine taking them together.

    This is based on my understanding and Im sure someone with more knowledge can come clear this up.
     
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  18. Ian Coe Professional Fighter

    Ian Coe
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    I'm still learning myself

    After reading a devilson post it seems caffeine dosn't work on the same mechanism as a diuretic.
     
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  19. anaconda Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

    anaconda
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    fwiw
     
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