Mikey Garcia

stuff jones said:
What are you talking about? He fought a very tough Salido, who did beat him, and fought Russell Jr. who is super talented.

Who has Garcia fought that he shouldn't have beaten?

I get that it might be too much to ask to expect you to be impartial with an Eastern Hemisphere fighter.
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Well, the Salido fight sort of reinforces my point IMO.

I personally don't think a lot of Russell and I doubt anyone would agree he's better than Garcia.
 
Interesting to see so many pick Garcia to beat Lomo. To me its 50/50. Make no mistake about it Garcia was spetacular this weekend but has Garcia fought anyone we havent expected him to beat? I dont think so. Ill say it again. Ive never seen a fighter fight this calibar of opponents for their first 8 fights despite whether or not you think Lomo was suppose to win them.

I just have this feeling that if they fought Lomo could outwork Garcia enough to pick up a close win. Make it a boring fight, jab, stay away, use his techinque. He has enough power i think to keep Garcia honest. Be a great fight though
 
Seano said:
Well, the Salido fight sort of reinforces my point IMO.

I personally don't think a lot of Russell and I doubt anyone would agree he's better than Garcia.
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I think Russell is pretty solid tbh.
 
Seano said:
Garcia is probably the only guy around Lomachenko's weight that I'd pick to beat him. Lomachenko is a very good fighter but I sort of get the feeling that he may be a frontrunner. He's been fighting decent fighters but fighters we all knew (or should have known) weren't going to beat him.

Garcia has better technique than anyone Lomachenko has fought He has the timing and countering skills to shut down that work rate and Lomachenko probably doesn't have the power to stop him from coming at him.
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Garcia is far and away the best and biggest fighter Lomachenko would have fought. Lomachenko didn't fold against Salido, per se, even if he was shell shocked and gave up several rounds as a result. He showed heart in the last two rounds even if it was too little too late. His performance against Russell Jr. was impressive, as well, even if, in retrospect, it wasn't a tough stylistic matchup (we really shouldn't expect Lomachenko to lose an outside boxing match to a smaller man who wasn't an incredible amateur).

If they do genuinely target Garcia, that will be a big fight. Garcia was p4p on some lists before his hiatus, and his form doesn't seem to have suffered after he completely dominated and near killed the consensus #2 LW in the world in 3 rounds (and no one thinks Linares has shit for Garcia, making him the best LW in the world in most people's estimation). If Lomachenko beat Garcia, I'd probably have him p4p #1 (depending on how he beat him, I guess, and on what Ward and Gonzalez do in the interim).
 
JayE said:
Garcia is far and away the best and biggest fighter Lomachenko would have fought. Lomachenko didn't fold against Salido, per se, even if he was shell shocked and gave up several rounds as a result. He showed heart in the last two rounds even if it was too little too late. His performance against Russell Jr. was impressive, as well, even if, in retrospect, it wasn't a tough stylistic matchup (we really shouldn't expect Lomachenko to lose an outside boxing match to a smaller man who wasn't an incredible amateur).

If they do genuinely target Garcia, that will be a big fight. Garcia was p4p on some lists before his hiatus, and his form doesn't seem to have suffered after he completely dominated and near killed the consensus #2 LW in the world in 3 rounds (and no one thinks Linares has shit for Garcia, making him the best LW in the world in most people's estimation). If Lomachenko beat Garcia, I'd probably have him p4p #1 (depending on how he beat him, I guess, and on what Ward and Gonzalez do in the interim).
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I don't disagree Lomachenko performs impressively. I just don't really think he fights guys who have a shot. Thats not to say he fights BAD competition either.
 
Seano said:
I don't disagree Lomachenko performs impressively. I just don't really think he fights guys who have a shot. Thats not to say he fights BAD competition either.
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Well, he has lost, so we do have an idea of what he does when he's behind. He doesn't fold even if he didn't perform as well as one might have hoped. If anyone does have an excuse for it, it was Lomachenko. Arum put him in with one of the worst fighters imaginable for a 2nd pro fight (even if it was technically his 8th pro fight, you're not seeing someone like Salido in the WSOB), and he did manage to muster something at the end.
 
As good as Mikey is we've never seen him fight anyone who's technique and speed is even close to Garry Russell Jr
 
JayE said:
Well, he has lost, so we do have an idea of what he does when he's behind. He doesn't fold even if he didn't perform as well as one might have hoped. If anyone does have an excuse for it, it was Lomachenko. Arum put him in with one of the worst fighters imaginable for a 2nd pro fight (even if it was technically his 8th pro fight, you're not seeing someone like Salido in the WSOB), and he did manage to muster something at the end.
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I'm obviously excluding Salido, as everyone usually does when we talk about how great Lomachenko is.

Salido and Garcia aren't really comparable fighters anyway.
 
Seano said:
I'm obviously excluding Salido, as everyone usually does when we talk about how great Lomachenko is.

Salido and Garcia aren't really comparable fighters anyway.
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No, Garcia beat down and outclassed a younger Salido than the one that beat Lomachenko. Still, as you said, different styles and I think Lomachenko is appreciably better than he was (that's without question in my mind). Garcia is a problem, there is little doubt. I'd wager Lomachenko wants him, but I doubt Arum offers him up anytime soon for various reasons (worried about riksing a cash cow and because he hates doing business with people who he fell out with).
 
Seano said:
Well, the Salido fight sort of reinforces my point IMO.

I personally don't think a lot of Russell and I doubt anyone would agree he's better than Garcia.
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Again who has Garcia fought who he wasn't favored vs? why do you use that standard for Lomachenko but not Garcia?

And btw what is happening to this board that all these lousy threads are everywhere but there's only this little thread from two years ago talking about one of the most exciting returns to the ring of a top talent in recent memory?
 
stuff jones said:
Again who has Garcia fought who he wasn't favored vs? why do you use that standard for Lomachenko but not Garcia?
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I don't really see the relevance. You're asking a stupid question. My prediction is based on how I believe the 2 match up stylistically, not who Garcia has fought that should beat him.

And btw what is happening to this board that all these lousy threads are everywhere but there's only this little thread from two years ago talking about one of the most exciting returns to the ring of a top talent in recent memory?
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Make some great threads.
 
stuff jones said:
Again who has Garcia fought who he wasn't favored vs? why do you use that standard for Lomachenko but not Garcia?

And btw what is happening to this board that all these lousy threads are everywhere but there's only this little thread from two years ago talking about one of the most exciting returns to the ring of a top talent in recent memory?
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I don't think we should be concerned about the new threads not being started as we're discussing Garcia, regardless. We should worry about shitheels from the heavies constantly making useless and shitty threads, though.
 
I think Garcia beats Lomachenko, but I will say, I don't htink Loma is a frontrunner, I just don't think he's as good as Mikey. Close fight though, and I wouldn't put money on it.
 
ironfist05 said:
I think Garcia beats Lomachenko, but I will say, I don't htink Loma is a frontrunner, I just don't think he's as good as Mikey. Close fight though, and I wouldn't put money on it.
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I don't have a lot to back up the idea of him being a front runner, to be fair. Its just a feeling I get when I watch him fight. His style is based around being in control. I wonder what would happen if he fought a guy who was timing and countering him with good shots.
 
I disagree about Lomachenko being a frontrunner. You don't survive 300 amateur fights in eastern Europe and 2 gold medals by being a front runner. And the Salido fight did show that he can withstand adversity, albeit in a loss.

That said, Lomachenko's never faced anyone with the combination of skill & power that Mikey Garcia has. I think Mikey probably wins that one.
 
Thing is, there's more evidence to suggest Garcia is in that "frontrunner" mould than Lomachenko is. Illegal butt or not, he took the safe route out of the Salido fight when it was presented to him. We've yet to see Lomachenko really dig down deep yet and maybe he doesn't have it in him but he showed more tolerance for a sustained ball battering than any other boxer I've seen in recent memory.

Both of these guys win purely on skills, anyway. I doubt it'd come down to who has the greater resolve or will than the other.
 
moosaev said:
I disagree about Lomachenko being a frontrunner. You don't survive 300 amateur fights in eastern Europe and 2 gold medals by being a front runner. And the Salido fight did show that he can withstand adversity, albeit in a loss.

That said, Lomachenko's never faced anyone with the combination of skill & power that Mikey Garcia has. I think Mikey probably wins that one.
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The one time he "faced adversity" as a pro, he lost. People always like to polish that up somehow or pretend it was 20 years ago, but it happened.
 
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