Mikey Garcia vs Lomachenko

[stuff jones]

Can we talk about the potential matchup instead of falling for Seano's contrarian trolling again?

I think Lomo is to slick and athletic for Mikey who is a little straight up and down even at his best.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Accidental foul is why it went to the cards.

My problem is that I don't believe a broken nose is an injury that renders a fighter unable to continue.

Rory MacDonald says hi. That fight was ended directly as a result of his nose being shattered by Lawler and it just happened in his fight before last. Are you going to question Rory's heart now too? I didn't think so.

First off, it depends on how bad the break is. The extent of it affecting or potentially affecting the fighter going forward, and how many rounds there are left to go, secondly. I've seen broken noses that have bled like water faucets, eyes pouring tears and fighters feeling very woozy due to the rapid amount of blood loss. If a fighter gets their nose broken badly and can't properly breathe out of it, that affects their breathing and can make them exclusive mouth breathers. Mouth breathers are much easier to knock out because they're relying on breathing out of their open mouth, not properly through the nose first and then out through the mouth on exhalation.

If I knew that my opponent had their nose badly broken and they're doing nothing but mouth breathing, I'd be looking to either crack their nose directly again, or even better, crack their loose hanging jaw knowing that biting down on their mouthpiece to help them absorb the shock of my punches will be less frequent than it was prior to their nose being broken in the first place. It can affect their breathing pattern, directly as a result of which their cardio, and everything from off of that; ie., their offense and defense.

Even worse, if a fighter is ignorant enough or accidentally out of habit clears their nose after the break then they'll likely end up with one working eye due to immediate swelling. It's a mistake that fighters have made before, even champions, in many sports. You now have a broken nose, maybe even a badly broken one, you're breathing much more heavily out of your mouth, and you have one good eye.



Didn't you ever watch Karate Kid 3?!

“A man can't breathe, he can't fight.”
“A man can't see, he can't fight.”

-Sensei Terry Silver (Cobra Kai)

The very first thing you're taught in any respectable self-defense course is to directly target vital points such as the eyes, nose, throat and groin. Go take one, a military combatives course or some Krav Maga lessons. You're ignorant in thinking that the primary breathing apparatus being impaired isn't important enough for a fight to be legitimately stopped in at least some situations, depending on the criteria that I listed.

SMH.

 

[nac386]

If Salido hit him with a punch and broke his nose, would you be okay with the doctor stopping the fight and giving Mikey a loss? Because I wouldn't. If it's bad enough to stop the fight, then a broken nose is always bad enough. If not, and the doctor only stopped it because Garcia said he was hurt, then he's only stopping the fight because of a complaining fighter and not because he believes that a broken nose is grounds to stop a fight at all - regardless of the cause.

If Mikey was hit by a punch that broke his nose, and he said he could not continue, then I'd be okay with the Doctor stopping it. Of course, in that scenario he loses.

If a guy can't breath, he can't continue. It is just as dangerous as not being able to see.

Not all broken noses are the same. Some are worse than others. Most times I would think the fighter can continue. But if it's badly broken, the airway may be blocked or clogged with blood, and it makes sense that it could be stopped, hypothetically.

 

[Seano]

Rory MacDonald says hi. That fight was ended directly as a result of his nose being shattered by Lawler and it just happened in his fight before last. Are you going to question Rory's heart now too? I didn't think so.

First off, it depends on how bad the break is. The extent of it affecting or potentially affecting the fighter going forward, and how many rounds there are left to go, secondly. I've seen broken noses that have bled like water faucets, eyes pouring tears and fighters feeling very woozy due to the rapid amount of blood loss. If a fighter gets their nose broken badly and can't properly breathe out of it, that affects their breathing and can make them exclusive mouth breathers. Mouth breathers are much easier to knock out because they're relying on breathing out of their open mouth, not properly through the nose first and then out through the mouth on exhalation.

If I knew that my opponent had their nose badly broken and they're doing nothing but mouth breathing, I'd be looking to either crack their nose directly again, or even better, crack their loose hanging jaw knowing that biting down on their mouthpiece to help them absorb the shock of my punches will be less frequent than it was prior to their nose being broken in the first place. It can affect their breathing pattern, directly as a result of which their cardio, and everything from off of that; ie., their offense and defense.

Even worse, if a fighter is ignorant enough or accidentally out of habit clears their nose after the break then they'll likely end up with one working eye due to immediate swelling. It's a mistake that fighters have made before, even champions, in many sports. You now have a broken nose, maybe even a badly broken one, you're breathing much more heavily out of your mouth, and you have one good eye.



Didn't you ever watch Karate Kid 3?!





The very first thing you're taught in any respectable self-defense course is to directly target vital points such as the eyes, nose, throat and groin. Go take one, a military combatives course or some Krav Maga lessons. You're ignorant in thinking that the primary breathing apparatus being impaired isn't important enough for a fight to be legitimately stopped in at least some situations, depending on the criteria that I listed.

SMH.

Hey, that's cool. Tell Rory McDonald I said hi back. I'm not sure I saw that fight so I couldn't comment on it. Did he win the fight because the fight was stopped? Fight finder says Lawler won. "TKO by punches." Can you confirm?

 

[Seano]

@Kovalev's "Man Bag"

lol WTF? I just watched the end of that fight on Youtube. The guy got punched in the face, fell down and turtled up as Lawler unloaded on the guy. You're comparing this to the Garcia/Salido ending? GTFO.

 

[Shoemaker]

If Mikey was hit by a punch that broke his nose, and he said he could not continue, then I'd be okay with the Doctor stopping it. Of course, in that scenario he loses.

If a guy can't breath, he can't continue. It is just as dangerous as not being able to see.

Not all broken noses are the same. Some are worse than others. Most times I would think the fighter can continue. But if it's badly broken, the airway may be blocked or clogged with blood, and it makes sense that it could be stopped, hypothetically.

Fair enough. I guess the point where we differ is that I think the doctor should make that judgement himself. If a guy told the doctor he didn't want to continue because he thought a cut was too bad, I wouldn't expect the doctor to go along with it unless he was going to stop the fight anyway. The doctor is the one qualified to make the decision.

That said, I just had the chance to go back and look at it and it looks like it took two doctors to decide that it was too bad to continue, but it looks like they did it pretty independently. I seem to remember Garcia's corner protesting more but I misremembered. Garcia didn't look particularly motivated but he wasn't arguing with them or really saying much at all.

Now if they had tried to stop the fight but Garcia protested and said he wanted to go on, I'd hope they'd still just stop the fight. You don't let a fighter go on when he's cut bad, either.

That's kind of what makes it a weird stoppage; when was the last time a doctor stopped a fight because a guy got punched in the nose really hard? I feel like we'd all be incredibly critical of a doctor if that happened. Imagine if Mikey was winning the fight, got hit in the nose really hard, wanted to go back out and finish but the doctor decided the broken nose was too bad and stops it. The same broken nose he had there. I don't think the consensus would be that "the doctor did the right thing."

 

[tehmvp]

The problem with the Salido fight was that Garcia's corner lobbied for the fight to be ended via accidental foul. I'm not too sure I've ever seen that before or since(other than Hopkins, I guess).

As for the actual topic, I have to see how Mikey looks before discussing a fantasy match with Loma.

 

[robjenkins2]

@Kovalev's "Man Bag"

lol WTF? I just watched the end of that fight on Youtube. The guy got punched in the face, fell down and turtled up as Lawler unloaded on the guy. You're comparing this to the Garcia/Salido ending? GTFO.

I don't remember the Garcia/Salido ending but Rory had more than a broken nose, he was messed up badly. I remember him saying that his vision went all white and he couldn't see anything. Then there is this gif which pretty much sums everything up.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

@Kovalev's "Man Bag"

lol WTF? I just watched the end of that fight on Youtube. The guy got punched in the face, fell down and turtled up as Lawler unloaded on the guy. You're comparing this to the Garcia/Salido ending? GTFO.

Rory had his nose shattered. The fight was over. He wasn't fighting back. He shelled up and fell down right after Lawler smashed it.

You're blind and ignorant. That is all.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

I don't remember the Garcia/Salido ending but Rory had more than a broken nose, he was messed up badly. I remember him saying that his vision went all white and he couldn't see anything. Then there is this gif which pretty much sums everything up.

Yes, he was. The problem is that even if this had happened rounds prior, it would've been over. A shattered nose means you're fucked. That's what Rory had, I saw the x-ray. At the end of the fight Rogan said let's look at the one shot that finished it, and it was bang dead right on the nose. Rory grabs his nose, shells up and falls down, stops fighting back. Prior to that Rory was still game and fighting despite being all banged up.

Rory nearly passed out from the pain when the cut woman pressed down on his nose, which is in the video you posted. Broken noses can and have ended fights. This was just the most recent one that I can think of.

 

[Shoemaker]

The problem with the Salido fight was that Garcia's corner lobbied for the fight to be ended via accidental foul. I'm not too sure I've ever seen that before or since(other than Hopkins, I guess).

As for the actual topic, I have to see how Mikey looks before discussing a fantasy match with Loma.

That's what I thought I remembered but the replay I watched didn't show it that way.

Agreed with your second line, I want to see how Mikey looks against a body first. I suspect he will look good though.

 

[tehmvp]

That's what I thought I remembered but the replay I watched didn't show it that way.

Agreed with your second line, I want to see how Mikey looks against a body first. I suspect he will look good though.

I remember watching it live. Robert kept asking if the fight was going to the cards.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Nipples (Arreola) had his nose broken badly but went on to fight against Stiverne.

"My last fight, I got to give it to Stiverne. He broke my nose and every punch after that was the most excruciating punch I have taken in my life. It was hard to breathe. I'm usually a risk-taker in the ring. I'll come in and give it my all and come straight forward. I'm a slugger. But it was hard to take a risk because every punch was excruciating because of my nose."

Goosen (RIP) on Arreola's badly broken nose in the fight

"I've seen fighters fight with one hand, I've seen fighters with blood gushing from their mouth and fighters fighting with bad knees or bad ankles, but when you take away a fighter's breathing ability you're really taking away his weapons."

Stiverne (23-1-1, 20 KOs) caught Arreola with a booming right hand on the nose as the third round was coming to an end. Arreola (35-3, 30 KOs), with blood pouring from his nose, went down to the canvas. Although he survived the knockdown, he was not the same for the rest of the fight. His breathing was seriously impaired and he lost a unanimous decision on scores of 118-109, 117-110 and 117-110.

http://espn.go.com/boxing/story/_/i...ly-broken-nose-suffered-loss-bermane-stiverne

So, he got his nose badly broken, knocked down from it, and then went on to fight very poorly as a result of impaired breathing and excruciating pain. This is a guy who didn't quit or have the fight stopped due to inability to continue. What did he gain? An even more fucked up nose (broken in multiple places), lots of pain and an L.

Is he smarter than Garcia? That's the question. I'd say no.

 

[Seano]

Can we talk about the potential matchup instead of falling for Seano's contrarian trolling again?

Fuck off. No, we can't. Discussions stray, everyone else is providing intelligent input, aside from you. Don't like the discussion ,don't comment, ass.

 

[Seano]

Nipples (Arreola) had his nose broken badly but went on to fight against Stiverne.



Goosen (RIP) on Arreola's badly broken nose in the fight





http://espn.go.com/boxing/story/_/i...ly-broken-nose-suffered-loss-bermane-stiverne

So, he got his nose badly broken, knocked down from it, and then went on to fight very poorly as a result of impaired breathing and excruciating pain. This is a guy who didn't quit or have the fight stopped due to inability to continue. What did he gain? An even more fucked up nose (broken in multiple places), lots of pain and an L.

Is he smarter than Garcia? That's the question. I'd say no.

You're sort of proving my point, IMO. Why didn't the doc jump in and stop the Arreola fight? Because its not a fight ending injury. Yeah, yeah, Garcia was probably going to win anyway, but he wanted out and amazingly got it without giving up anything. Never seen it before, still bugs me.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

@Kovalev's "Man Bag"

lol WTF? I just watched the end of that fight on Youtube. The guy got punched in the face, fell down and turtled up as Lawler unloaded on the guy. You're comparing this to the Garcia/Salido ending? GTFO.

I also never "compared" Rory's shattered nose being the reason he was finished (an observable fact) to Garcia's broken nose and him saying he couldn't breathe and the fight being stopped in between rounds against Salido. Nice try.

Here's what I DID comment on though. You said...

Accidental foul is why it went to the cards.

My problem is that I don't believe a broken nose is an injury that renders a fighter unable to continue.

I just gave you an example of it happening. Want a better one from MMA, boxing, kickboxing? Just ask. Go read about what I posted from Arreola too.

You say that Rory got punched in the face?! Good call. It was directly on his already broken nose. It was shattered after that left straight and he fell down as a result from the pain. He stopped fighting altogether and turtled up, as you said. You then reach and say that Lawler "unloaded" on him after he was down. You only need one working eye to see that 0/3 of those follow up punches landed of Lawler's. If you want to challenge me on this then I'll easily just make a GIF to once again illustrate your foolishness.

 

[Seano]

I just gave you an example of it happening. .

No ,you didn't.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

No ,you didn't.

Go to the UFC Discussion forum here, make a thread, and simply ask what ended that fight. They'll tell you the same thing that even Mr. Magoo could see. Rory's nose was broken in the first round. Lawler kept targeting it specifically, leading to the finish. Why did Rory fall down the way he did? Pain. He grabbed his nose just before he went to the canvas. Those three follow up punches didn't even land. The first one missed so badly it was laughable, the second just missed and the last was blocked because Rory was shelled up like a turtle and it hit his glove.

Prior to all of this, before that straight left that finished Rory, Rory was still very game and exchanging with Lawler trying to win the fight. Just admit that you're wrong.

 

[Seano]

Go to the UFC Discussion forum here, make a thread, and simply ask what ended that fight. They'll tell you the same thing that even Mr. Magoo could see. Rory's nose was broken in the first round. Lawler kept targeting it specifically, leading to the finish. Why did Rory fall down the way he did? Pain. He grabbed his nose just before he went to the canvas. Those three follow up punches didn't even land. The first one missed so badly it was laughable, the second just missed and the last was blocked because Rory was shelled up like a turtle and it hit his glove.

Prior to all of this, before that straight left that finished Rory, Rory was still very game and exchanging with Lawler trying to win the fight. Just admit that you're wrong.

No, i'm not doing that. Your example is not even similar to what I'm talking about. The ref jumped in and stopped the Lawler fight because McDonald was eating punches and not responding. The ref didn't stop the fight under doctors orders and have the judges render a decision. The example safe not even sort of similar.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

No, i'm not doing that. Your example is not even similar to what I'm talking about. The ref jumped in and stopped the Lawler fight because McDonald was eating punches and not responding. The ref didn't stop the fight under doctors orders and have the judges render a decision. The example safe not even sort of similar.

You typed something foolish and I replied. There is no comparison to Garcia to be made here. Rory got dropped after his nose was already broken in the first round. Lawler hit it on the button, shattered it, and Rory had had enough due to the pain. He was turtled up, your words, therefore, he was not "responding" prior to those follow up punches you're pretending finished him. You can't have it both ways. Rory stopped fighting back altogether after falling to the canvas. And again, not a single punch of the 3 follow up (unnecessary btw) punches even landed. Fact. I'll GIF the shit now, actually.