Mike Pence caught on wiretap

[HomerThompson]

That's not what the FBI director said or the Chairman of the House Intelligence Committee. I'm going to have to take their word over yours unless you can give me a solid source.

I'll check for one while you attempt to respond to the rest of my destruction of your previous post. Thanks.

 

[Fawlty]

Yes, I do. Unmasking American citizens caught in a surveillance where they are not the target is a felony. It was talked about at length by FBI director Comey and by the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee during the hearings a few days ago.

Your position is that Obama ordered the surveillance, and you base it on the standard of "there's no way it didn't happen" and "you must not know how the justice department works." I shouldn't have made the leap in logic there. But you're still holding the hot potato.

 

[HomerThompson]

I responded to the part of your post that was factually incorrect. That's not what the FBI director said or the Chairman of the House Intelligence Committee. Nunes stated that an investigation was under way to determine the source of the leak that unmasked Flynn, as a felony appeared to have been committed. I'm going to have to take their word over yours unless you can give me a solid source.

My thing was easier than yours.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/23/politics/nsa-terms-glossary/

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

Your position is that Obama ordered the surveillance.

Nope. My position is that Obama knew. The FBI was investigating at least four members of a presidential campaign. Hell yeah the President knew.

 

[Fawlty]

Nope. My position is that Obama knew. The FBI was investigating at least four members of a presidential campaign. Hell yeah the President knew.

You said Obama had his campaign under surveillance. Are you absolving him of ordering it when you also claim that he had to authorize it?

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

My thing was easier than yours.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/23/politics/nsa-terms-glossary/

I read the article but didn't see anything that contradicted the claims by Nunes, unless Pence or Flynn are being criminally investigated. If either has a criminal prosecution brought against them, then that changes everything.

 

[HomerThompson]

I read the article but didn't see anything that contradicted the claims by Nunes, unless Pence or Flynn are being criminally investigated. If either has a criminal prosecution brought against them, then that changes everything.

Reread this paragraph please:

But if the NSA or another agency with which NSA is sharing the information, like the FBI, wants to identify the person, it can do so if it believes it's necessary in the course of investigations or have probable cause to indicate there may be criminal conduct involved. Rogers said the number of people who have unmasking authority was limited in the NSA to about 20 people, while FBI Director James Comey said there were necessarily many more in the FBI who could do so because the agency's work involves domestic affairs.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

Reread this paragraph please:

But if the NSA or another agency with which NSA is sharing the information, like the FBI, wants to identify the person, it can do so if it believes it's necessary in the course of investigations or have probable cause to indicate there may be criminal conduct involved. Rogers said the number of people who have unmasking authority was limited in the NSA to about 20 people, while FBI Director James Comey said there were necessarily many more in the FBI who could do so because the agency's work involves domestic affairs.

I read that paragraph. And according to the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, none of the people with the position to authorize an unmasking did so. That's why this is a leak, and not an official report. And thus whoever unmasked Flynn and Pence did so illegally. Will that hold up in a court of law? I don't know. I do know that I'm going to go with Comey and Nunes over CNN on this one.

 

[nostradumbass]

So Pence is a Russian spy too?

I guess anyone who's ever talked to a Russian person is a Russian spy now.

 

[HomerThompson]

I read that paragraph. And according to the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, none of the people with the position to authorize an unmasking did so. That's why this is a leak, and not an official report. And thus whoever unmasked Flynn and Pence did so illegally. Will that hold up in a court of law? I don't know. I do know that I'm going to go with Comey and Nunes over CNN on this one.

Ridiculous, and you still haven't addressed the bulk of my original post to you. You said on multiple occasions that unmasking was a felony unless criminal conduct was suspected. This paragraph shows that to be untrue. The article also shows that many people at the FBI have the authority to unmask people. You're too dug in here, and your arguments are garbage.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

You said Obama had his campaign under surveillance. Are you absolving him of ordering it when you also claim that he had to authorize it?

I said the Obama administration had Trump's campaign under surveillance. That much is indisputable at this point, because at least four members of Trump's campaigns and/or transition team were under surveillance. I am inferring from the gravity of such a situation that Obama knew. I am also inferring from the lack of criminal charges that they didn't find much, although that could change. If the FBI found some of these guys breaking the law, then I fully support them being prosecuted aggressively, up to and including Trump himself. If they didn't, then I fully support those who unmasked Flynn and Pence being aggressively prosecuted.

This is a shitty situation indeed, and everyone involved looks bad From where I sit someone needs to go to jail. Either Pence (and wouldn't that be a humdinger?) or the guy who unmasked him. Same for Flynn.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

So Pence is a Russian spy too?

I guess anyone who's ever talked to a Russian person is a Russian spy now.

Pence does look sort of shifty. Fact.

 

[nostradumbass]

Pence does look sort of shifty. Fact.

I guess he kinda does. Looks kinda like a Mormon to be honest. I don't think I'd be that shocked if he turned out to be a creep, but I don't think anyone would shock me at this point. Would be a little surprised if Trump's entire cabinet turned out to be Russian spies though, which I guess is the claim. Would be seriously impressed if it were true.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

Ridiculous, and you still haven't addressed the bulk of my original post to you. You said on multiple occasions that unmasking was a felony unless criminal conduct was suspected. This paragraph shows that to be untrue. The article also shows that many people at the FBI have the authority to unmask people. You're too dug in here, and your arguments are garbage.

Right, so people in the FBI, the NSA, and the Attorney General's office have the authority to unmask American citizens. We agree. Then who authorized it? If it was authorized, then you are correct and it wasn't illegal, but the FBI director and NSA chief did not say these were authorized when asked about them publicly.

See, this is the pickle we find ourselves in. If Obama's attorney general authorized it, then Trump's claims are largely vindicated. If she didn't, then it sure seems like someone broke the law here, because it wasn't the FBI or NSA who authorized it, based on what Comey and Rogers had to say. I mean, they could be lying. I'm working under the assumption thy are telling the truth, which is a weakness in any argument related to politics.

 

[P4p Islam]

I don't have to prove anything. What we know is that the Obama administration was surveilling several members of Donald Trump's campaign and incoming transition team, and in at least two of those cases, Flynn and Pence, have committed felonies while doing so.

And yet people are claiming Trump lied because Obama himself did not literally tap Trump's wires. It's quite stupid.

Dude, it wasn't obamas call. I don't know how much more clear I can make it. The intel community got together and presented a case to a federal judge. Said judge then issued the fisa warrant.




This is like that part in pineapple express.

"The battery is dead"

"What do you mean the battery is dead?"

"I mean the battery is dead. It has ceased to live. The battery is dead."

"Ahhh........"

 

[Paynebringer]

Widespread media reports have long pegged four people in the Trump campaign’s orbit as being under FBI investigation: Michael Flynn, Carter Page, Roger Stone, and Paul Manafort. These are the four who could realistically have been the subject of a judge-issued FISA surveillance warrant.

Good to Go, go straight to jail that is, Too low on the pole, put on POTUS hold and just too slick unlike the other two...

 

[nostradumbass]

Dude, it wasn't obamas call. I don't know how much more clear I can make it. The intel community got together and presented a case to a federal judge. Said judge then issued the fisa warrant.




This is like that part in pineapple express.

"The battery is dead"

"What do you mean the battery is dead?"

"I mean the battery is dead. It has ceased to live. The battery is dead."

"Ahhh........"

OK, so Obama was totally opposed to it, it just happened to be exactly what he wanted. That's pretty lucky.

 

[P4p Islam]

Good to Go, go straight to jail that is, Too low on the pole, put on POTUS hold and just too slick unlike the other two...

I don't know what just happened

 

[P4p Islam]

OK, so Obama was totally opposed to it, it just happened to be exactly what he wanted. That's pretty lucky.

I can't shake my head in awe hard enough

 

[Fawlty]

I said the Obama administration had Trump's campaign under surveillance. That much is indisputable at this point, because at least four members of Trump's campaigns and/or transition team were under surveillance.

That's where your problem is. That does not mean that the Obama administration had them under surveillance. They may have, but you're the one taking the leap in logic now (you are also aware of that fact).

I am inferring from the gravity of such a situation that Obama knew. I am also inferring from the lack of criminal charges that they didn't find much, although that could change. If the FBI found some of these guys breaking the law, then I fully support them being prosecuted aggressively, up to and including Trump himself. If they didn't, then I fully support those who unmasked Flynn and Pence being aggressively prosecuted.

This is a shitty situation indeed, and everyone involved looks bad From where I sit someone needs to go to jail. Either Pence (and wouldn't that be a humdinger?) or the guy who unmasked him. Same for Flynn.

You inferred more- that whoever investigated Trump had Obama's blessing, to the point that it was "the administration" doing it, and yet you still back away from the idea that it was at Obama's behest. Absurdity.