Middle Earth Shadow of War

[Bob Gray]

Then lets add the admittion that Monolith/WB Games aim to make money with the addition of microtransactions with your questioning my claim of...

'1. Monolith isn't just adding microtransactions, but they're changing the game's pacing to make the purchase of microtransactions far more appealing.'

So... they're adding microtransactions to make money, but won't change the pacing of the game to make the microtransactions more appealing?


Yeah, that's based on the desire of primarily single-player developers to bring in the revenue of multiplayer games through microtransactions.

The entire existance of a company is to make money. So, I'm interested in your argument as to why they don't want to make more money.


His opinion isn't exactly uncommon, but what sets his appart is the history he's brought up of other single-player series bringing in microtransactions to the detriment of the quality of the game.


Judge the opinion based on the merritt of the opinion, the likelihood of it being reality, rather than the persons presenting the opinion.

And wonder why the opinion is voiced by so many.

So far, you've just been shooting down the probability of the game being altered to make the microtransactions an attractive option, yet you've not given an argument as to why that isn't the case.


The video was posted today.

My initial cautious opinion was based on the first impressions after hearing the news.

What changed my opinion, was being reminded the publisher is WB Games, who has been adding more intrusive microtransactions to every release for years.


Good to hear.... but the thing is Monolith & WB Games won't give a shit, because you already bought the game.



And you're betting $60+SalesTax that you're right, and everyone on the internet is wrong.

Perhaps the outrage is overblown, and it'll be a fun game despite the added grinding, but it won't be as fun as the original... especially for those that detest such business practices and detest them being inserted in our favorite game series.

This is essential a really simple thing that you're trying to make more complicated than it is.

They could make the game more "grindy" to encourage people to buy MTs. Doesn't mean they will. The notion that because they desire "profit" is meaningless since every single developer and publisher has the same primary motivator for every decision they make. If people think game devs like Valve and CDProjekt arent making every decision because they feel in the long run it's going to make them the most profit, then they're naive. They just have a different philosophy.

You're assuming theyd make more money by making the game "worse" but putting in MTs to make it "better" when purchased. You're not counting potential sales theyd lose just by putting in MTs in the first place, and then not even counting what theyd lose if the game does turn out to be a disappointment. What it's going to come down to is the quality of the game. If it comes out and it is a grindy mess, then no amount of MTs is going to make up for the loss in potential sales.

You're sitting there saying I have no argument when that's exactly what your side is doing. Saying "MTs = grind" is a shit argument. Theres no verifiable prediction that can be right or wrong since "grind" is ultimately such a vague bullet point. If they have more side missions, is that "grind"? Or is that just more game content? If you can repeat missions, but it isn't necessary to progress, is that "grind"? Grinding to achieve what exactly? Skipping content....I guess? Since no one has any idea what this "grind" is going to be in the first place, much less what you're "grinding" for.

I care about my single player campaign experience. If I play through it and don't experience this nebulous "grind" people are referring to in a game that is so far promising dynamic content I'm gonna pretty much assume people are talking out of their ass. If I do experience a bunch of crap, filler content, I'd be the first to say "Fuck this shit".

I've only played a few WB games, but I don't know what this reputation is you're talking about. I played Mad Max and it was fine. I put a bit of time, but admittedly not much into MK X. I remember people bitching and moaning about paid fatalities, but at the same time it's one of those things that doesn't effect gameplay, so I couldn't give less of a shit about MTs like that. Arkham Knight had arguably the worst PC launch of all time for a AAA title, but I don't remember any evil micros. So what are some of the horrible, game breaking microtransactions WB has been adding?


Jesus Christ, not "everyone on the internet" agrees with you. That's a stupid as fuck thing to say. I've paid zero dollars for anything so far. I'll wait for hands on previews and reviews on release. Let's see if they put a review embargo on it. It's 2017 and we have the internet with a bajillion gaming vendors, anyone paying full price for a game is a moron.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

This is essential a really simple thing that you're trying to make more complicated than it is.

They could make the game more "grindy" to encourage people to buy MTs. Doesn't mean they will. The notion that because they desire "profit" is meaningless since every single developer and publisher has the same primary motivator for every decision they make. If people think game devs like Valve and CDProjekt arent making every decision because they feel in the long run it's going to make them the most profit, then they're naive. They just have a different philosophy.

I'll agree with you on this - WB and Monolith COULD see the backlash from the announcement and realise they need to scale back on either the planned grindy pacing to encourage microtransactions, the price range of the microtransactions, or both.

Of course, they won't admit its because of the backlash, they'll be like 'See? all the negativity was for nothing' when, in reality, they planned it to be like a 'Free-To-Play/Damn-Hard-To-Win-Without-Paying' smartphone app like Game Of War.

So, if you DO happen to be eventually correct that the microtransactions don't hurt the gameplay beyond it being fun, you're welcome.

You're assuming theyd make more money by making the game "worse" but putting in MTs to make it "better" when purchased. You're not counting potential sales theyd lose just by putting in MTs in the first place, and then not even counting what theyd lose if the game does turn out to be a disappointment. What it's going to come down to is the quality of the game. If it comes out and it is a grindy mess, then no amount of MTs is going to make up for the loss in potential sales.

You're right, but its impossible to know if they know that, or if they'll gamble on the microtransactions overcoming the sale losses.

If you haven't heard, the 'Free-to-Play, Pay-to-Win' business model for apps like Game of War have brought in HUGE money. They're obviously gambling on bringing it to a big single-player game will reep similar awards.

You're sitting there saying I have no argument when that's exactly what your side is doing. Saying "MTs = grind" is a shit argument. Theres no verifiable prediction that

You haven't played Dead Space 3, have you?

Saying "MTs = grind" is a shit argument. Theres no verifiable prediction that can be right or wrong since "grind" is ultimately such a vague bullet point. If they have more side missions, is that "grind"? Or is that just more game content? If you can repeat missions, but it isn't necessary to progress, is that "grind"? Grinding to achieve what exactly? Skipping content....I guess? Since no one has any idea what this "grind" is going to be in the first place, much less what you're "grinding" for

Which goes back to the question in a previous post that you haven't answered...

"So... they're adding microtransactions to make money, but won't change the pacing of the game to make the microtransactions more appealing?"

I care about my single player campaign experience. If I play through it and don't experience this nebulous "grind" people are referring to in a game that is so far promising dynamic content I'm gonna pretty much assume people are talking out of their ass. If I do experience a bunch of crap, filler content, I'd be the first to say "Fuck this shit".

And whenever you would say "Fuck this shit" it'd be a LONG time after you paid $60+SalesTax for the game.

So what are some of the horrible, game breaking microtransactions WB has been adding?

Before MKX, it wasn't that bad, I agree. But its been progressing badly with MKX and when Injustice2.

MKX had a ton of microtransactions, with new characters, fatalities, and costumes.

It got worse under Injustice2 with MORE characters, and costumes. It's starting to get to the point that a third of the content is being held back for DLC/Microtransactions.

And now, it seems like they're starting to impliment it into Shadow of War... and some people have no problem with that.

Jesus Christ, not "everyone on the internet" agrees with you. That's a stupid as fuck thing to say.

Trump is President and you don't know what overexaggeration means?

'Everyone on the internet' has agreed with absolutley nothing, but the vast majority has.

I've paid zero dollars for anything so far. I'll wait for hands on previews and reviews on release.

Awesome. It seems like you were still a Day 1 Buyer.

Let's see if they put a review embargo on it. It's 2017 and we have the internet with a bajillion gaming vendors, anyone paying full price for a game is a moron.

Once again, I agree.

At worst, I'll wait until they come out with a GOTY edition like they did with MKX and Shadows of Mordor, (With No Microtransactions).

At best, I'll buy it during the Steam Winter Sale, because I won't have time to play it before then anyway.

 

[Bob Gray]

I'll agree with you on this - WB and Monolith COULD see the backlash from the announcement and realise they need to scale back on either the planned grindy pacing to encourage microtransactions, the price range of the microtransactions, or both.

Of course, they won't admit its because of the backlash, they'll be like 'See? all the negativity was for nothing' when, in reality, they planned it to be like a 'Free-To-Play/Damn-Hard-To-Win-Without-Paying' smartphone app like Game Of War.

So, if you DO happen to be eventually correct that the microtransactions don't hurt the gameplay beyond it being fun, you're welcome.

You keep referring to this "planned grind"as if anyone on your side of the fence has done anything besides make vague assumptions. What is the grind going to be? What "pacing" are they changing? From what to what? If you don't have any specifics, or at least some sort of verifiable prediction that will end up being provably true or false, then it's worthless. Even if the "grind" is the exact same thing as the previous game (I.E. rune hunting, emblems, lore items, etc) people will still bitch and moan.

You haven't played Dead Space 3, have you?

Yes, I did play that other game by a different developer and published by a different company that screwed around with the formula of it's previous iterations due to disappointing sales. Doesn't really sound very similar to SoM at all.

Which goes back to the question in a previous post that you haven't answered...

"So... they're adding microtransactions to make money, but won't change the pacing of the game to make the microtransactions more appealing?"

You literally quoted my answer to this already.

Before MKX, it wasn't that bad, I agree. But its been progressing badly with MKX and when Injustice2.

MKX had a ton of microtransactions, with new characters, fatalities, and costumes.

It got worse under Injustice2 with MORE characters, and costumes. It's starting to get to the point that a third of the content is being held back for DLC/Microtransactions.

And now, it seems like they're starting to impliment it into Shadow of War... and some people have no problem with that.

Are we talking about micros or DLC? Conceivably, those can be two different things (I.E. costumes vs new characters down the line after release).

Now, I can't help but notice, most of what you put up as some sort of microtransaction travesty is pretty silly bullshit that doesn't affect gaemplay. Fatalities? Costumes? Dude, theres zero things wrong with having cosmetic MTs, and even fatalities arent worth complaining about since they don't change who won or lost. Seriously, if you're gonna complain about that shit you'll complain about anything.

Haven't played Injustice 2, but some quick google searching lists the microtransactions as costumes and cosmetics that don't affect gameplay. Not seeing a problem. It seems like you're complaining about microtransactuons existing at all, and it's not important if they're cosmetic or game affecting. It had characters down the line, but added DLC down the line after release is pretty standard.

Costumes? Seriously? You're complaining about costumes? You realize they already had costume and skin DLC for Shadow of Mordor, right? *GASP*!! OMG, GRIND!!!!!!!!! So now when they have skin and costume micros, are you gonna complain about it like you didn't do when they had it for the first game?

If this is your argument of the cruel standard of microtransaction practices it's pretty unconvincing.

A better example would be shit like that zombie game that got pulled off steam. HZ1 or something? Forget the name. But you could buy bullets and crap that were super rare in game. That's the kind of MTs that people have a right to be angry about. But costumes? Fatalities? Ugh. That's just silly to complain about.

 

[deadshot138]

Loved Mordor but might have to forgo this on principle because of the micro transactions. Looks like more of the same anyhow.

 

[TheRuthlessOne]

Yeah they pretty much killed my hype for this game

Oh well

 

[Madmick]

LOL, a bit of Onion-type humor:
Sauron overwhelms Middle-earth after spending big on in-game gold

Evil has finally defeated Good today and Middle-Earth is now under the control of the dark lord Sauron, after the ancient evil spent more than $1500 on in-game gold to bolster his armies.

Following the announcement of new in-game purchases, Sauron was able to increase his armies at a much faster speed than the cash-strapped forces of good. Randomly generated orc followers of varying strength have since laid siege to the walls of Minas Tirith, shattered the gates of Rivendell, and razed the Shire to the ground.

Sauron explained that although the purchases were “strictly optional”, he felt that the best strategy for him personally was to take advantage of the flexibility they offered.

“It’s not unfair at all,” explained the dark lord at a war council meeting, surrounded by a variety of randomly-generated soldiers, his limbs gleaming with purchased experience bonuses.

“Everything that I’ve been doing with these purchases could also be done for free by simply fighting the war normally.”

“It’s about having options. For example, I had the option to win, because I had more money. That’s an option that was available to me, and I took it. You don’t have to like it, but that’s the free market for you.”

Although things are looking grim for what precious little light remains in this world, there may yet be some hope as Sauron appears to have temporarily maxed out his credit card.

“No comment,” explained the angry master of all evil, as bank hold music warbled gently out of the nearby Palantír.

 

[AronaBeatsJones]

Same here (Googled info about the sequel last week).

This is very welcomed news. I took a punt on the first game without knowing anything about it, and it completely delivered. Play the game every year.

This might be one of the rare times I'll ever buy something on launch day (last one being "Skyrim" like five years ago, and even that was on Future Shop's E3 pre-order three, get one free promo: I think the other games were COD: Modern Warfare 3, Batman: Arkham City, and Max Payne 3 (which was the shits)).

Was really looking forward to this sequel, but now I'll wait and see what the first reactions are before thinking about biting.

And even then, microtransactions are so off-putting that I'll probably wait a year or two for the base price to be chopped in half before indulging.

Did the same thing for Fallout 4, and STILL waiting for the GOTY version to come out before I play that game.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

You keep referring to this "planned grind"as if anyone on your side of the fence has done anything besides make vague assumptions. What is the grind going to be? What "pacing" are they changing? From what to what? If you don't have any specifics, or at least some sort of verifiable prediction that will end up being provably true or false, then it's worthless. Even if the "grind" is the exact same thing as the previous game (I.E. rune hunting, emblems, lore items, etc) people will still bitch and moan.

Asked and answered.

Yes, I did play that other game by a different developer and published by a different company that screwed around with the formula of it's previous iterations due to disappointing sales. Doesn't really sound very similar to SoM at all.

If you say so.

You literally quoted my answer to this already.

I quoted you dodging the question, not answering it.

Are we talking about micros or DLC? Conceivably, those can be two different things (I.E. costumes vs new characters down the line after release).

Now, I can't help but notice, most of what you put up as some sort of microtransaction travesty is pretty silly bullshit that doesn't affect gaemplay. Fatalities? Costumes? Dude, theres zero things wrong with having cosmetic MTs, and even fatalities arent worth complaining about since they don't change who won or lost. Seriously, if you're gonna complain about that shit you'll complain about anything.

I complained about consumers paying full price for 66% of the entire game, the other 34% in updates to fix bugs & glitches that should have been fixed before the game was released, DLC that was developed before the game was released (sometimes on the disc), and being pumped for additional money through bullshit microtransactions.

Haven't played Injustice 2, but some quick google searching lists the microtransactions as costumes and cosmetics that don't affect gameplay. Not seeing a problem. It seems like you're complaining about microtransactuons existing at all, and it's not important if they're cosmetic or game affecting. It had characters down the line, but added DLC down the line after release is pretty standard.

Costumes? Seriously? You're complaining about costumes? You realize they already had costume and skin DLC for Shadow of Mordor, right? *GASP*!! OMG, GRIND!!!!!!!!! So now when they have skin and costume micros, are you gonna complain about it like you didn't do when they had it for the first game?

If this is your argument of the cruel standard of microtransaction practices it's pretty unconvincing.

To you.

A better example would be shit like that zombie game that got pulled off steam. HZ1 or something? Forget the name. But you could buy bullets and crap that were super rare in game. That's the kind of MTs that people have a right to be angry about. But costumes? Fatalities? Ugh. That's just silly to complain about.

Basically, we're both going to do the same thing, wait for the reviews.

The difference between us, you have a nieve optimism and I'm more realistic based on the trends within the industry.

 

[Bob Gray]

Asked and answered.

You literally never answered it at all.

If you say so.

What does this even mean? All points of that quote are objectively true.

I quoted you dodging the question, not answering it.

If you didn't understand the answer that's not my problem.

I complained about consumers paying full price for 66% of the entire game, the other 34% in updates to fix bugs & glitches that should have been fixed before the game was released, DLC that was developed before the game was released (sometimes on the disc), and being pumped for additional money through bullshit microtransactions.

Please show me your no doubt incredibly impressive mathematical formula to reach these numbers. I can't help but think that, like most of what you're saying, it comes completely from your ass.

Now you're bringing up bugs and glitches. Which has nothing to do with anything, but neither do most of your points.

To you.

Not just to me but to "the entire internet durrrrrrrrr". Are you actually gonna bitch about them having cosmetic microtransactions in the game? Like, seriously? That's what you're doing now?

Speaking of ignoring questions, which is essentially what you're doing in this entire reply, did you even know that costumes and skins were already MTs in Shadow of Mordor? Why didn't you cry about it then?

The difference between us, you have a nieve optimism and I'm more realistic based on the trends within the industry.

Holding judgement until we get more evidence isn't optimism, it's pragmatism. The last group of people anyone should take advice from is crying gamers on internet forums. If you're so butt hurt about the "trend" of costumes and skins your priorities are a little silly. You've tried really hard throughout this thread to demonstrate some sort of "pattern" and you've failed at every level. Your evidence is apparently a wealth of cosmetic micro transactions that don't affect gameplay, which is turn directly contradictory to your attempting to show a "pattern" of WB implementing MTs that affect gameplay. I mean, duh.

On top of that you can offer no prediction whatsoever, can't bring up a single change in game design from anything we've seen in the previews, and your apparent smoking gun is a guy on the internet who made a youtube vid and he "promises" that something, that he doesn't name, will totally happen. I guess that's not quite as damning as "Look what a totally different developer and publisher did to a completely different game almost 5 years ago".

Just go home, kid. You can't win an argument if what little evidence you have literally contradicts what you're attempting to prove.


Serious question, though. What if they added a "win the game" MT? Like, pay 10 bucks and you immediately get transported to the end and win.

 

[empsim]

I loved the first one but not getting this for now

doesnt matter what the microtransactions actually do or dont do, they are there and I dont want them

I'll get it for 20-30$

 

[GhostZ06]

I loved the first one but not getting this for now

doesnt matter what the microtransactions actually do or dont do, they are there and I dont want them

I'll get it for 20-30$

ill get it when it less

 

[Bob Gray]

I loved the first one but not getting this for now

doesnt matter what the microtransactions actually do or dont do, they are there and I dont want them

I'll get it for 20-30$

But if they don't affect you or your gameplay, why does it matter if they're there? Assuming they don't, that is.

 

[Metal_Daze]

Turn off but I'll still watch the reviews and footage before the $ decision.

 

[empsim]

But if they don't affect you or your gameplay, why does it matter if they're there? Assuming they don't, that is.

because they are there and they do something (whatever it is), that I cant do without paying.

for full price I want a full game.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

Interesting video.

 

[TrippleOG]

comes out next week... not much hype. I might wait till it hits 30 bucks like most of these WB/ubisoft games usually do..

 

[Capt Lunatic]

CAN NOT WAIT.....for it to hit $20.

 

[Concrete]

Yeah it's getting high scores but apparently the micro transaction bullshit is deeply ingrained into the game. Another disconnect between gamers and gaming media it seems.

 

[GhostZ06]

Yeah it's getting high scores but apparently the micro transaction bullshit is deeply ingrained into the game. Another disconnect between gamers and gaming media it seems.

yep under 20$ is my price

 

[Fraz]

Yeah me too, i loved the first game so this would've definitely been a first day buy for me but i'm getting sick of shit like this, i'll buy it a year or 2 down the line.