Miami Mega Jail

[Seaside]

i can go all day on this subject. american jails and prisons are basically university for criminals. if someone commits a crime out of desparation, we lock them in a room with a bunch of hardened criminals with nothing to do all day except talk about crimes, form gangs and plan crimes for when they get out. then they get out into the same desperate situation, except now they had 6 months talking about the best way to rob, and we expect them to not rob anyone

youre not rude for saying a lot seem retarded, inner city "hoodrat" culture breeds a lot of people that arent compatible with civilized society, then they spend a lifetime going in and out of jail, because thats all theyre capable of

i think we shold
A-separate members of prison gangs into more divided sections so that they never interact during their stay
B-brutal punishment for gang activity
C-forced labor, to both pay for the jailing system and to give them work experience for when they get out

i havent watched that video, but many of the prisons arent in cells, its literally a big hangout for members of the same gang

Just shoot them all. If you got shaved head and dress like a tough with tattoos everywhere you probably not ever be good person especially if you have a bad record of violence

What we're doing now is adult babysitting.

I want to make that shit horrific. Prison loaf for every meal. Hard labor. Uncomfortable living conditions etc. make it so the NEVER want to go back.

Just execute them. Boom like old days

 

[jonharrison]

Let me get this straight...

He was drunk, in possession of a controlled substance, throwing bottles into an apartment complex (where I’m certain children play), harrassing, insulting, threatening, and ultimately assaulting a female police officer...

...oh, and he has two previous strikes...

...and he’s “well put together”...because he goes to college!?

You and him should BOTH be locked up! Pair of idiots.

Perhaps I wasn’t as clear as I could have been, which is admittedly my mistake. I typed the post while on a break at work, and was rushed. I’m more conflicted on whether he’s such a bad person as to be unredemable, or whether his life could have been turned around with substance abuse treatment and anger management therapy. I probably have a different perspective, though, seeing his behavior as less severe, because I’ve worked with some pretty evil offenders, including chronic domestic abusers and several predatory sex offenders. Who knows, I certainly don’t think giving him the slap on the wrist of just the public intox and sending him on his way was the right call.

 

[jonharrison]

I can't believe you are divided on this example. Look at his behaviors and than re assess his crocodile tears, you were played. How many chances was he given that you don't know about. He spat in her face, that's assault to me and worse yet maybe gave her a communicable decease. Jail the scum.

Well, I suppose my other experiences have colored my views as well. At the time it happened I wasn’t very conflicted that he was a douchebag who deserved to spend some time at county. Since then I’ve worked with some pretty evil people, including some chronic domestic abusers and predatory sex offenders, guys who truly are beyond saving. Just makes me wonder what sort of substance abuse intervention, or anger management could have helped. I’m a very law and order type of guy, but the question is how to prevent a guy like him from becoming an actual monster? Maybe you can’t, but it gives me something to think about.

 

[Bloodworth]

No fathers

 

[Big Nasty Edison]

So, I was watching Miami mega jail by Louis Theroux the other night. I have seen other good productions by same man, and I really like the way he approach peoples.

Anyway. I have always been divided when it comes to how the best way could be to do jail time. Punishment or rehab? But when I see some of the inmates, I´m wondering if they can be saved at all. What can a 25+ year old man do to change his situation when he has served his term? Am I rude to think that many of them seemed quite retarded? Or is it the way they are talking? I had to use subs to follow their conversations.

I´m again asking the american audience for some good intel. Is the american jail-system working in general? Some of the most violent inmates in this film are quite scary to watch. But at the same time I feel a little bit sad when I see them. It just feels like they are animals locked away. Not a good-feeling environment if you ask me.

One of my guilty pleasures is watching Lock Up. It seems to run the gammute from guys who seem like their IQs are barely above, to guys who are extremely well spoken and you can't even imagine them being a brute. But once both guys get out in the streets, they go back to acting the same way.

 

[Gregolian]

One of my guilty pleasures is watching Lock Up. It seems to run the gammute from guys who seem like their IQs are barely above, to guys who are extremely well spoken and you can't even imagine them being a brute. But once both guys get out in the streets, they go back to acting the same way.

Lock Up can be fucking hilarious.

The episodes where they talk to guys with "girlfriends" in prison and they're like "nah, I ain't gay"

 

[KillMeGod]

i would agree, that most of these losers when they get out will never be anything but a burden on society, repeat offenders and all around filth that you wouldn't want near your kids. It would be best if most of them died in prison tbh. Maybe their crime doesn't warrant it... but what can these fucking losers offer to society??

 

[mon]

Well, I suppose my other experiences have colored my views as well. At the time it happened I wasn’t very conflicted that he was a douchebag who deserved to spend some time at county. Since then I’ve worked with some pretty evil people, including some chronic domestic abusers and predatory sex offenders, guys who truly are beyond saving. Just makes me wonder what sort of substance abuse intervention, or anger management could have helped. I’m a very law and order type of guy, but the question is how to prevent a guy like him from becoming an actual monster? Maybe you can’t, but it gives me something to think about.

The evil people you mention are more like than not Socio/Psychopaths or in the almost category. Mental health has almost made no progress what so ever in being able to reform this behavioural type from being anti social. There is a wealth of knowledge/resources out there on the subject so I'll refrain from giving links as you can google like anyone.

Before offering compassion everyone should ask the question would they do it for me? and assess the totality of their behaviours. You had isolated your externally invoked emotional response from the other clear signs which showed his character to be negative. To me both the policewoman and yourself were played by a person who is experienced in emotional manipulation.

Personally I think a beating he'd never forget would have had more of an effect as a deterrent towards future reoffending than anything else but that view would be shouted done and in a way the shouters would be right if the offender was a sociopath as a physical response does little to stop reoffending in that behavioural class.

 

[Big Nasty Edison]

I would be fine with Singapores system, including capital punishment.

I'm fine with that being for violent crime only. However, I have news for you. People here don't go to jail for a little bit of pot. You have to push some weight to end up in prison.

The fact is, we need to do something different here, with the rise of heroine, It's killing tons of people and ruining lives.


Do you know any heroine addicts? I do, they're just husks with the singular goal of getting high. How many lives need to be ruined before we take it seriously? You think cushy jails, where people can easily get drugs is the answer???

So how many people who go to jail or prison for possession of heroin come out and stay off of it, instead of immediately going back?

 

[helltoupee]

All of the things you mention are already in place in many prisons. Some guys do go on to lead decent lives, it's just that we don't hear about them. The majority of them don't really want help, though. They like their lives, as shitty as it seems to the rest of us.

The problem is that even for guys who want to go straight, it is difficult to get a decent job having a record, so it's no wonder they go back to whatever they were doing.

 

[helltoupee]

Not criminalize the addicts, go after the dealers. Less drugs on the streets is the goal.



Out of curiosity, do they have methodone in your country for addicts?

We have it here, but I'm not sure how much good it does. Seems to just be trading one drug for another. Both guys I know on it, abuse it when they can.

Methadone is used to stop self-harming behavior, and as @tonni said, it's a trade-off.

The idea is that it at least gets the addict into an environment (clinic) where there is structure and counseling available - which is just a foot in the door to changing the addictive mindset and drug-seeking behavior.

Many people who use heroin want to stop, especially long-term addicts, but are afraid to because of withdrawals, which the physical withdrawal is the easiest part - it's the psychological depression that is the hardest to overcome. When you abuse opiates long-term, your body stops producing natural levels of serotonin and dopamine because it is getting it from a non-natural source. When you take the opiate away, their mood plummets and it takes a long while to get over that hump, which makes it very easy for the addict to make all of that misery go away with "just one more fix". Obviously the cycle repeats itself endlessly. Controlled replacement of that with methadone and buprenorphine, which can be slowly titrated down, is a good option for hard-core addicts.

I would absolutely agree with you that most people on long-term maintenance of methadone (ie., for years and years) is not a good thing. But the clinic environment definitely is a baby step to *slowly* chip away at self-destructive behavior.

 

[Pwent]

Jail is often times a vacation from the hell of every day life. You don't have to think, you don't have to provide for anyone, you don't have to do anything. As weird as it sounds, it's freedom.

my friend went to jail for a few months and kept talking about this. you have literally no responsibilities and dont have to do anything. ify ou get into a good safe situation while in prison, you have very little stress

obviously he didnt want to go back to prison, but he was saying that he can see how people can get addicted to the lack of responsibility

Bring back flogging.

for many crimes, thats probably better for all parties involved. its cheaper for the taxpayer, convict doesnt get involved in prison gangs and become more hardened

jail is actually a weird concept if you think about it

 

[tonni]

Just shoot them all. If you got shaved head and dress like a tough with tattoos everywhere you probably not ever be good person especially if you have a bad record of violence


Just execute them. Boom like old days

 

[Pwent]

Wow, thanks for this insightful response. I have to agree on your entire post.

But the photo you added got me in a total shock. I really love USA and during my lifetime I have met people from east to west. Most of them meeting, when I was living in Thailand. I´m a sucker for good stories and as a person I am just curious about your culture. Although I have never really got an satisfied answer why Americans never take of their shoes while entering their beds.

When I think of USA and all the good stories I have collected, it baffles me that a inspirational source of safety (not with the current president) and know-how of myriads of things, the same country can inhabit, for me very extreme ideas of how to do things.

So, back to the photo. The photo itself is pure culture shock for me. We (Sweden) could not have this kind of big areas, housing hundreds of inmates in the same room. And certainly not sleeping together! What happens if they start to fight? Do you actually have manpower to take them on if all them decided to jump the guards? Is this the norm in all prisons? Or is it an emergency solution because of over crowded prisons?

I have more questions, but this will do for now.

Thanks again!

I'll try to answer the questions first

>what happens if they start to fight? Do they have the manpower in case they turn on the guards?

prisonguards live in constant high alert, which is why its a very high paying job but very stressful. They always treat every moment as if theyre about to be attacked, and always take a lot of precautions to avoid putting themselves in a dangerous situation where they could be attacked.

For large areas like this, or in the yard (outdoor area for exercise, like recess at school), they usually have an alarm that they hit, where all inmates have to immediately get on the ground, anyone standing is considered hostile. Then they have people on higher vantage points, or from cover with guns with nonlethal ammo. They also have other prison guards immediately come over in full riot gear that is very hard to overcome without weapons

they are very efficient at shutting down open rioting

the bigger concern, is sneak attacks with handcrafted weapons. inmates are very very good at making them, as many of them have nothing to do all day but form weapons and think of attacks. Even making it from paper and hardening by constantly wetting and rerolling. heres the folsom prison wall of "fame" of improvised weapons. these are a much bigger threat, as prisoners can randomly attack while the guard has their guard down (pun intended)

>Is this the norm in all prisons? Or is it an emergency solution because of over crowded prisons?

yes and no. its not by design, but prisons are becoming permanently overcrowded. California keeps releasing prisoners early, for example, because they simply dont have space. This isnt an easily solved problem, because if people keep committing crimes, we are expected to imprison them...

However, its becoming increasingly common, since now many prisons rely on gangs to govern the inmates, so this format is easier to use that method... though i think that is absolutely retarded and must be stopped

 

[AlexDB9]

Please elaborate. But please do it in words that lesser non-english speaking people can understand. I know you, for your insane cryptic labyrinth of words. Yes, I read a lot of your posts. Very enlightening!



I get what you are saying and agree on them working and pay of their crimes. But to kill them of the day after trial? What if they are innocent? It has happend before and will happen again. To name a very cruel case is that about Timothy Evans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_Evans



Yeah the bitter reality. But does it help if they have to be locked in like that? Unreal picture!



Well said!



You are a very sane man.



Yeah, totally agree on their contribution to society. They have to know they did wrong, but we as a society just have to give them a chance to prove them self. If they are scared they will run in to same pattern again, then give them a chance to relocate another place and start on a fresh and be ready to do so.



Yeah, really like him!



Ever? Why?



I am familiar with Ross Kemp. Love his work, and he is really genuine and have the heart on the right place. I am fan of Extreme world series. They both are apple or oranges for me. Both very good.

The Ross Kemp on Gangs South Africa was pretty eye opening, the Miami jail has nothing on that shit

 

[cooks1]

So, I was watching Miami mega jail by Louis Theroux the other night. I have seen other good productions by same man, and I really like the way he approach peoples.

Anyway. I have always been divided when it comes to how the best way could be to do jail time. Punishment or rehab? But when I see some of the inmates, I´m wondering if they can be saved at all. What can a 25+ year old man do to change his situation when he has served his term? Am I rude to think that many of them seemed quite retarded? Or is it the way they are talking? I had to use subs to follow their conversations.

I´m again asking the american audience for some good intel. Is the american jail-system working in general? Some of the most violent inmates in this film are quite scary to watch. But at the same time I feel a little bit sad when I see them. It just feels like they are animals locked away. Not a good-feeling environment if you ask me.

The US prison system is pretty fucked up. But make no mistake, there are plenty of animals that just flat out belong in a cage. As soon as you let them out, they will bite someone. But that is a small % of the prison population.

You could talk about it for days. But at the end of it there are 3 fundamental problems that simply must be addressed to have any hope of improvement. 1 of those is with Federal and State prisons. 1 is with local jails. And 1 is before people enter the legal system.

1) In Federal and State prisons, the fundamental problem is that there are just way, WAY too many non violent offenders in prison at all. We should have 70% fewer people in federal and state prison.

2) Local jails are not even really jails. They are basically drug and mental wards. Because neither the federal, state or local authorities give any shits about mental health or drug abuse. Take a tour of your local jail, and I will bet you a dollar to a doughnut that 90% of the occupants are either substance abusers or mental nutters that the police know by name and are regular tennents.

3) 95% of the people that enter the legal system are as predictable as the sunrise. From poverty stricken broken families. If you invested (notice I did not say give welfare or give money) 1/3 of what you spent in prisons in educating and providing basic resources to those at risk people, you would not need the prison space. That is not an opinion mind you. Every place that has done this has reaped the rewards.

I don't know why people don't understand this. They do understand it in other aspect of their lives. It's simple preventive maintenance. Do you give your car oil changes, or do you drive it until the engine blows?

 

[bobgeese]

So how many people who go to jail or prison for possession of heroin come out and stay off of it, instead of immediately going back?

Depends on if they get on methodone. Even then, you're basically trading one vice for another.

 

[bobgeese]

Methadone is used to stop self-harming behavior, and as @tonni said, it's a trade-off.

The idea is that it at least gets the addict into an environment (clinic) where there is structure and counseling available - which is just a foot in the door to changing the addictive mindset and drug-seeking behavior.

Many people who use heroin want to stop, especially long-term addicts, but are afraid to because of withdrawals, which the physical withdrawal is the easiest part - it's the psychological depression that is the hardest to overcome. When you abuse opiates long-term, your body stops producing natural levels of serotonin and dopamine because it is getting it from a non-natural source. When you take the opiate away, their mood plummets and it takes a long while to get over that hump, which makes it very easy for the addict to make all of that misery go away with "just one more fix". Obviously the cycle repeats itself endlessly. Controlled replacement of that with methadone and buprenorphine, which can be slowly titrated down, is a good option for hard-core addicts.

I would absolutely agree with you that most people on long-term maintenance of methadone (ie., for years and years) is not a good thing. But the clinic environment definitely is a baby step to *slowly* chip away at self-destructive behavior.

To start, my mom worked in, basically taking addicts off the street, cleaning the up (or more often putting a roof over their head), and entering them into rehab, so I'm very familiar. In fact, heroine addicts were often not a problem during withdrawal, it was the alcoholics that required attention.


Interesting thing, in my area, a large area, there was only one methodone clinic. I was kinda shocked to learn that. Sadly, we'll need more.

 

[helltoupee]

To start, my mom worked in, basically taking addicts off the street, cleaning the up (or more often putting a roof over their head), and entering them into rehab, so I'm very familiar. In fact, heroine addicts were often not a problem during withdrawal, it was the alcoholics that required attention.


Interesting thing, in my area, a large area, there was only one methodone clinic. I was kinda shocked to learn that. Sadly, we'll need more.

Ya, alcohol withdrawals are life-threatening. Heroin withdrawals not so much. Your mom sounds like a good person.

My mom was actually on methadone maintenance for several years.

 

[sweede]

I'll try to answer the questions first

>what happens if they start to fight? Do they have the manpower in case they turn on the guards?

prisonguards live in constant high alert, which is why its a very high paying job but very stressful. They always treat every moment as if theyre about to be attacked, and always take a lot of precautions to avoid putting themselves in a dangerous situation where they could be attacked.

For large areas like this, or in the yard (outdoor area for exercise, like recess at school), they usually have an alarm that they hit, where all inmates have to immediately get on the ground, anyone standing is considered hostile. Then they have people on higher vantage points, or from cover with guns with nonlethal ammo. They also have other prison guards immediately come over in full riot gear that is very hard to overcome without weapons

they are very efficient at shutting down open rioting

the bigger concern, is sneak attacks with handcrafted weapons. inmates are very very good at making them, as many of them have nothing to do all day but form weapons and think of attacks. Even making it from paper and hardening by constantly wetting and rerolling. heres the folsom prison wall of "fame" of improvised weapons. these are a much bigger threat, as prisoners can randomly attack while the guard has their guard down (pun intended)

>Is this the norm in all prisons? Or is it an emergency solution because of over crowded prisons?

yes and no. its not by design, but prisons are becoming permanently overcrowded. California keeps releasing prisoners early, for example, because they simply dont have space. This isnt an easily solved problem, because if people keep committing crimes, we are expected to imprison them...

However, its becoming increasingly common, since now many prisons rely on gangs to govern the inmates, so this format is easier to use that method... though i think that is absolutely retarded and must be stopped

The US prison system is pretty fucked up. But make no mistake, there are plenty of animals that just flat out belong in a cage. As soon as you let them out, they will bite someone. But that is a small % of the prison population.

You could talk about it for days. But at the end of it there are 3 fundamental problems that simply must be addressed to have any hope of improvement. 1 of those is with Federal and State prisons. 1 is with local jails. And 1 is before people enter the legal system.

1) In Federal and State prisons, the fundamental problem is that there are just way, WAY too many non violent offenders in prison at all. We should have 70% fewer people in federal and state prison.

2) Local jails are not even really jails. They are basically drug and mental wards. Because neither the federal, state or local authorities give any shits about mental health or drug abuse. Take a tour of your local jail, and I will bet you a dollar to a doughnut that 90% of the occupants are either substance abusers or mental nutters that the police know by name and are regular tennents.

3) 95% of the people that enter the legal system are as predictable as the sunrise. From poverty stricken broken families. If you invested (notice I did not say give welfare or give money) 1/3 of what you spent in prisons in educating and providing basic resources to those at risk people, you would not need the prison space. That is not an opinion mind you. Every place that has done this has reaped the rewards.

I don't know why people don't understand this. They do understand it in other aspect of their lives. It's simple preventive maintenance. Do you give your car oil changes, or do you drive it until the engine blows?

A little late to see those posts. But thank you very much for your contributions!

Have a nice day.