Metropolitan (1990) - Like The Breakfast Club but with college-aged yuppies

I was uncertain over how to take this part. Was it wish fulfillment or what he somehow punishing himself? Because he says over and over earlier in the film that he doesn't like to be called a genius.

I think a lot of this comes down to insecurity. He finds his mother changing and becoming a different person threatening in some way. And when Ruby begins to change, his fear is that they'll grow apart and she'll leave him.

I believe that everything we see in the movie where he is difficult and hard to get along with ties back into his own insecurities and his feeling of being threatened in some way, which for me is sympathetic because honestly I saw a bit of myself in that.

I think deep down he wants to be thought of as a genius but he questions his 'genius.' He wants Ruby to recognize him as something special for both his great talent and idiosyncrasies. He feels like he isn't special and maybe even less than normal when his mental health is considered.

I'm not sure he finds his mother's behavior threatening; but more likely recognizes she's capable in being a completely different person than who she was his entire life. She's shed her identity, the identity of the woman who raised him and his brother. I found his behavior to be that of disgust rather than contempt or fear.

I agree with your last point up to the point where he had a conversation with his ex-girlfriend. I feel like we were granted a nice view into who he was towards women --- he was only interested in the image he projected on them of who he thought he thought they were or wanted them to be. Ruby was no different but this time he was able to actualize his desires. I suppose this is something that alludes to a female writer; were as most men are opportunistic instead.
 
Well one of the pleasures of being in a relationship is experiencing it for itself and not constantly agonizing over when it might end. It can still be meaningful even if it's only temporary - see recent proposals for finite marriage contracts as examples of perhaps a more realistic alternative to the lifetime arrangement.

As for the second part, I had a friend who was like that once who is in a relationship he's very happy with now. The way I explained the experience of moving out of that extreme introversion was like this - you know when you're at a social gathering and you get home and you're all alone and you finally exhale and relax? In a really good relationship that relaxation doesn't hit you until you're both at home together.

It's not something you can switch on and off obviously, but it's a feeling to maybe imagine opening up to. I often feel quite lonely by myself now when I never did before.

I'll keep all that in mind. It's the commitment part that really fucks with me. If you have a car that starts acting up or that you get bored with, you can always just get a new car. Or hell, if you want, you can have two cars. But with relationships, you can't be so flippant unless you just don't care about people's feelings.

I am terrified of the idea of hurting someone, and I don't really want to get hurt either, and it seems that ultimately the vast majority of relationships end up pain one way or the other.

Regarding feeling lonely by yourself, that's interesting, because I have had the opposite experience. When I was younger I was more of a social creature and would have times when I would feel lonely if I had been alone for too long, but these days it's not really a problem. As long as I hang out with one of my friends a couple of times a month I'm good. I actually suspect that the Internet has a lot to do with that. With the Internet I'm able to connect with people like you and I are connecting right now. That goes a long way to serving my need for human interaction.

I think our true moral positions are revealed when we're tested, and happy Calvin failed to realize that his were nothing more than lip service.

I agree with that statement on the face of it, but I also feel like it is in times of exceptional stress and pressure that we are our weakest. So our psychological state isn't what it normally is and things are apt to seem logical and reasonable that otherwise would not.

He could have done that without the outright manipulation though. He could have sat down with her and explained what had happened and taken her through some minor tests after she consented to them. It might have been an emotional episode but he's sitting there thinking and typing man, he's not reactively yelling or letting a word slip out of his mouth or something. There's too much consciousness of the process for me to permit it without judgement.

I might agree to meet you halfway on this one, but I feel like you're discounting the emotion of the moment. As I just said, in certain emotional and psychological states, things that are not logical or reasonable can seem to be so.

I'm not saying Calvin was in the right. I'm just saying I kind of get where he was coming from.

As for the second - I don't think we see what he's written in that moment, do we? Maybe he wrote something that made her continued awareness explicit. I don't think there's any other evidence that she had been naturally progressing toward relinquishment for us to go on.

I tried to go back and solve this mystery but for some reason my file is no longer working. I don't think that we can see what he writes though. Maybe you're correct that he specifically wrote that she would have conscious understanding of what was going on. I guess we really don't know, but it struck me as odd that earlier she suddenly spoke French and didn't think a thing about it but later on she was conscious of the manipulation.

I think he hates the genius label because he knows he can't continuously live up to it - or if he can, he just hates the pressure and expectations that come with his ability. I don't think he hates it because he doesn't want to be an actual genius, especially in the eyes of the person he's closest to, and who knows him the best.

You're probably right.

I'm sure he does find it threatening. But his choice is to retreat from that threat and act hostile toward his own mother rather than accept that she's happy with her new circumstances. I thought we'd get more of a reason to find her life choices shallow or empty somehow, but as far as I could tell she went along with a guy she liked and he seemed pretty cool, and at the very least sincere. Calvin's poor showing in this relationship is a sample of what becomes a full blown problem in his own intimate relationship, and it would have been nice to see him get over that more extensively than a single drastic action could allow.

I feel you on that. I guess I'm sympathetic because I haven't found a cure for my own neuroses. And it's not because I haven't wanted to.
 
I think deep down he wants to be thought of as a genius but he questions his 'genius.' He wants Ruby to recognize him as something special for both his great talent and idiosyncrasies. He feels like he isn't special and maybe even less than normal when his mental health is considered.

You're probably right.

I'm not sure he finds his mother's behavior threatening; but more likely recognizes she's capable in being a completely different person than who she was his entire life. She's shed her identity, the identity of the woman who raised him and his brother. I found his behavior to be that of disgust rather than contempt or fear.

Here's what I think is going on here. . .

He fears from Ruby (actually, from all women) what he sees in his mother. He has seen his mother grow, change, become a different person, fall for a completely different man than his father was. So will Ruby do the same? Will she change? Will she become a different person and decide that she wants something different from what he can provide? In fact, doesn't this prove that this is a concern for ANY girl?

I think that Calvin finds his mother's behavior very threatening indeed, because for him it's a reflection of what could happen with women in his own life. Note that Calvin becomes increasingly uncomfortable as Ruby begins to grow more and more into herself and, as a consequence, seems less and less interested in him.

I agree with your last point up to the point where he had a conversation with his ex-girlfriend. I feel like we were granted a nice view into who he was towards women --- he was only interested in the image he projected on them of who he thought he thought they were or wanted them to be. Ruby was no different but this time he was able to actualize his desires. I suppose this is something that alludes to a female writer; were as most men are opportunistic instead.

I'll have to think more about the point you're making here, but I do want to mention something about "alluding to a female writer."

One thing I have to wonder is, even though Calvin is a male and Zoe Kazan is a female, how much of Zoe Kazan do we see in Calvin? After all, both are writers, both are artists, so are we seeing some of Kazan's tendencies coming out in him?

That's interesting to think about.
 


About ~2min in she talking about the type writer.



Covers a few topics we've discussed here.

Here's what I think is going on here. . .

He fears from Ruby (actually, from all women) what he sees in his mother. He has seen his mother grow, change, become a different person, fall for a completely different man than his father was. So will Ruby do the same? Will she change? Will she become a different person and decide that she wants something different from what he can provide? In fact, doesn't this prove that this is a concern for ANY girl?

I think that Calvin finds his mother's behavior very threatening indeed, because for him it's a reflection of what could happen with women in his own life. Note that Calvin becomes increasingly uncomfortable as Ruby begins to grow more and more into herself and, as a consequence, seems less and less interested in him.

Pretty solid.

I don't think she's growing into herself and I don't think Calvin perceives the 'new' version of his mother as her true self. I think he's just witnessing how easily people, and women especially, can mold their personality to their surroundings when it's in their favor. If anything Calvin is threatened by the first hand knowledge that you never really know anyone.
 


About ~2min in she talking about the type writer.



Covers a few topics we've discussed here.


LOL I just remembered I needed to come back and watch these. Better late than never, right?

That's pretty interesting about the typewriter. It sounds like a good explanation: He's set in his ways, rigid, always stays within his comfort zone. AND as she said a typewriter in operation is simply a hell of a lot more cinematic than watching someone use a computer.

I will look forward to seeing more of what she comes up with. It appears that this is her only other project as a writer:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt5929754/?ref_=nm_flmg_wr_1

And she is only one of three credited writers AND it's an adaptation rather than an original idea.

It's suprising to me that she hasn't already completed something else. I mean, Ruby Sparks came out five years ago.
 
LOL I just remembered I needed to come back and watch these. Better late than never, right?

That's pretty interesting about the typewriter. It sounds like a good explanation: He's set in his ways, rigid, always stays within his comfort zone. AND as she said a typewriter in operation is simply a hell of a lot more cinematic than watching someone use a computer.

I will look forward to seeing more of what she comes up with. It appears that this is her only other project as a writer:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt5929754/?ref_=nm_flmg_wr_1

And she is only one of three credited writers AND it's an adaptation rather than an original idea.

It's suprising to me that she hasn't already completed something else. I mean, Ruby Sparks came out five years ago.
Surprising yes but if anyone understands falling behind on work it's me!

I'm glad she's continued to work although the plot of that movie sounds pretty crappy, but realistic I suppose.

I'm going to rewatch Citizen Kane and then read the wiki on it. Will update.
 
Surprising yes but if anyone understands falling behind on work it's me!

I'm glad she's continued to work although the plot of that movie sounds pretty crappy, but realistic I suppose.

Agreed on that plot. It doesn't sound like a movie that's going to interest me very much.

I'm going to rewatch Citizen Kane and then read the wiki on it. Will update.

Damn, going for the re-watch! Look at you!

I actually started it last night after I got your e-mail, but it was late so I paused at the halfway mark. I'll finish it up tonight so I can be fresh for a discussion.

In fact, I'd say instead of posting your thoughts in here you should make a Citizen Kane thread.
 
Just bought the criterion edition, one of my favorite films.
TS finally made a thread about a good movie, wow.
 
Gonna watch it right now and report back.

The Metropolitan thread is now the official rom-com discussion thread, LOL.

But yeah, that's awesome. Like I said, I really enjoyed it. Probably a Top 10 film of 2017 for me.

I'll be interested in hearing your thoughts.
 
The Metropolitan thread is now the official rom-com discussion thread, LOL.

But yeah, that's awesome. Like I said, I really enjoyed it. Probably a Top 10 film of 2017 for me.

I'll be interested in hearing your thoughts.

Mid-movie piss break here.

I wasn't expecting much with the subject matter but so far it's been fairly palatable and heartfelt. I feel like they're playing the family pressure on his side way too lightly when it would be very serious. Her having crazy/loving/whatever parents is a bit of a cop out too but you wouldn't have a movie otherwise I guess.
 
I wasn't expecting much with the subject matter but so far it's been fairly palatable and heartfelt.

I thought you liked rom-coms, since you liked Ruby Sparks. Do you tend to avoid the genre?

I feel like they're playing the family pressure on his side way too lightly when it would be very serious. Her having crazy/loving/whatever parents is a bit of a cop out too but you wouldn't have a movie otherwise I guess.

Regarding his family, I get the impression that as traditional as they are, they also haven't been able to avoid being Westernized to some extent. So maybe that's why they're fairly chill.

As for her family, I'm not sure I get what you mean. Some people really do have very loving, attentive parents.
 
I thought you liked rom-coms, since you liked Ruby Sparks. Do you tend to avoid the genre?

No, I don't mind the genre.

It's just once you've seen The Karate Kid Part 2 all other forbidden romance stories feel half hearted. Not joking.

Regarding his family, I get the impression that as traditional as they are, they also haven't been able to avoid being Westernized to some extent. So maybe that's why they're fairly chill.

As for her family, I'm not sure I get what you mean. Some people really do have very loving, attentive parents.

Just glanced at the wiki, seems like this is based directly off of the lead actor's marriage. I'm sure there's a ton of truth there but it felt we got the PG version of how his parents reacted to the entire situation. Probably her parents too.

When I paused the movie her mother had just tried to fight a heckler and then stayed up drinking with him while looking at photos of their daughter. That pretty out there behavior in my world. Her parents seemed really nice though; don't get me wrong.

Don't take any of that for me disliking the film. I thought it progressed well and everyone put in solid performances. His family was pretty funny and her parents were well developed. Zoe Kazan is really good here in a very adorable way. I'm glad things resolved themselves the way they did for them.
 
No, I don't mind the genre.

It's just once you've seen The Karate Kid Part 2 all other forbidden romance stories feel half hearted. Not joking.

An interesting perspective. I can't say the romance in KKII really did that much for me.

Just glanced at the wiki, seems like this is based directly off of the lead actor's marriage. I'm sure there's a ton of truth there but it felt we got the PG version of how his parents reacted to the entire situation. Probably her parents too.

When I paused the movie her mother had just tried to fight a heckler and then stayed up drinking with him while looking at photos of their daughter. That pretty out there behavior in my world. Her parents seemed really nice though; don't get me wrong.

Don't take any of that for me disliking the film. I thought it progressed well and everyone put in solid performances. His family was pretty funny and her parents were well developed. Zoe Kazan is really good here in a very adorable way. I'm glad things resolved themselves the way they did for them.

I knew it was based on a true story, but I didn't realize it was based in HIS true story. That's interesting. Apparently he co-wrote the film with his wife. He obviously played himself and she was played by Zoe Kazan. I wonder how she felt seeing herself being portrayed in their story by someone else.

Well glad that you checked it out, though you don't seem quite a bowled over by it as I was. I'm still trying to figure out how I think it stacks up against Ruby Sparks.
 
the movie in the OP looks really putrid
 
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