METAMORIS 7 Results *SPOILER*

If you're in the SD area, visit Studio 540. That place is really nice.

In terms of the vibe, I actually prefer 540 over ATOS HQ.
 
I prefer point scoring to submission only events without sudden death. That's why I like EBI because you either submit the guy or escape a submission hold more efficiently than your opponent which gives you the win.

It's just a personal preference.

Only problem with Ebi is that most fighter would never get dominate postion on superior grapplers. So it goes to overtime and its a race against the clock... Doesn't really prove nothing but who can escape faster.
 
Only problem with Ebi is that most fighter would never get dominate postion on superior grapplers. So it goes to overtime and its a race against the clock... Doesn't really prove nothing but who can escape faster.

I like the fact that it makes the grapplers improve their ability in that area of their game. Metamoris IMO doesn't promote submission, it promotes caution and destroys the concept of positional hierarchy. At EBI, people go for the kill because they don't want to go to overtime and risk losing. It's win-win from my point of view. Even IBJJF rules IMO hinder jiu-jitsu advancement.
 
I like the fact that it makes the grapplers improve their ability in that area of their game. Metamoris IMO doesn't promote submission, it promotes caution and destroys the concept of positional hierarchy. At EBI, people go for the kill because they don't want to go to overtime and risk losing. It's win-win from my point of view. Even IBJJF rules IMO hinder jiu-jitsu advancement.

Point base tournament actually make competitors take chances. If you are down you have to make something happen or you lose.

Ebi overtime says nothing if you couldn't get to those dominate position own.
 
Point base tournament actually make competitors take chances. If you are down you have to make something happen or you lose.

Ebi overtime says nothing if you couldn't get to those dominate position own.

I agree on the overtime critique. The overtime round is an effective way of deciding the winner, but it doesn't tell us who the superior grappler is, which is really why we watch these tournaments, right? That said, I love EBI.
 
Point base tournament actually make competitors take chances. If you are down you have to make something happen or you lose.

Ebi overtime says nothing if you couldn't get to those dominate position own.

I'd disagree. Every rule set, for grappling, skips over and past types of preliminary maneuvering that could prevent the later and more final entanglements. If you don't have rules that make things happen by artificially placing grappling competitors into otherwise-avoidable danger, then the greatest grapplers in the world would all be stand-up gripfighting specialists. Because nobody can ever get anywhere against a gripfighting stand-up specialist, no matter how good a grappler you are, under truly open and unrestrictive rules. They will just stand there gripfighting the shit out of you until they get a point or such, and then the match is over, you can never get back in it. Grappling consists of nothing more than gripfighting for points. This has negligible real-world application, and in no way means that such a fighter is the greatest grappler.

That's why elaborate gripfighting is now outlawed in judo, there are rules forcing engagement, lots of penalties, etc.

There is nothing wrong with placing grappling competitors into more advanced stages, and more unbalanced positions, of a grappling match. Particularly since grappling is supposed to be advantageous for fighting, and real-world fighting rarely involves the preposterously elaborate and infinitesimal maneuvering from relatively safe positions that you see in open-rules neutral-position grappling. The 'angry crab' that dominates BJJ competition is pointless in any real world fight. Those guys are getting punched in the head and kicked and such, or they are blind-side tackled, and so there is a genuine need to fight effectively from the types of fighting positions in which *shit is actually happening*, not safely fighting for millimeters of grip from neutral.

I agree that rule sets need to impart urgency to one or the other competitor, but that is exactly what truly open rule sets like Metamoris DON'T do. Positional points are better than Metamoris rules because they create some added urgency once somebody gets a point, but from what I've seen to date, EBI rules are better still.
 
I'd disagree. Every rule set, for grappling, skips over and past types of preliminary maneuvering that could prevent the later and more final entanglements. If you don't have rules that make things happen by artificially placing grappling competitors into otherwise-avoidable danger, then the greatest grapplers in the world would all be stand-up gripfighting specialists. Because nobody can ever get anywhere against a gripfighting stand-up specialist, no matter how good a grappler you are, under truly open and unrestrictive rules. They will just stand there gripfighting the shit out of you until they get a point or such, and then the match is over, you can never get back in it. Grappling consists of nothing more than gripfighting for points. This has negligible real-world application, and in no way means that such a fighter is the greatest grappler.

That's why elaborate gripfighting is now outlawed in judo, there are rules forcing engagement, lots of penalties, etc.

There is nothing wrong with placing grappling competitors into more advanced stages, and more unbalanced positions, of a grappling match. Particularly since grappling is supposed to be advantageous for fighting, and real-world fighting rarely involves the preposterously elaborate and infinitesimal maneuvering from relatively safe positions that you see in open-rules neutral-position grappling. The 'angry crab' that dominates BJJ competition is pointless in any real world fight. Those guys are getting punched in the head and kicked and such, or they are blind-side tackled, and so there is a genuine need to fight effectively from the types of fighting positions in which *shit is actually happening*, not safely fighting for millimeters of grip from neutral.

I agree that rule sets need to impart urgency to one or the other competitor, but that is exactly what truly open rule sets like Metamoris DON'T do. Positional points are better than Metamoris rules because they create some added urgency once somebody gets a point, but from what I've seen to date, EBI rules are better still.
 
I'd disagree. Every rule set, for grappling, skips over and past types of preliminary maneuvering that could prevent the later and more final entanglements. If you don't have rules that make things happen by artificially placing grappling competitors into otherwise-avoidable danger, then the greatest grapplers in the world would all be stand-up gripfighting specialists. Because nobody can ever get anywhere against a gripfighting stand-up specialist, no matter how good a grappler you are, under truly open and unrestrictive rules. They will just stand there gripfighting the shit out of you until they get a point or such, and then the match is over, you can never get back in it. Grappling consists of nothing more than gripfighting for points. This has negligible real-world application, and in no way means that such a fighter is the greatest grappler.

That's why elaborate gripfighting is now outlawed in judo, there are rules forcing engagement, lots of penalties, etc.

There is nothing wrong with placing grappling competitors into more advanced stages, and more unbalanced positions, of a grappling match. Particularly since grappling is supposed to be advantageous for fighting, and real-world fighting rarely involves the preposterously elaborate and infinitesimal maneuvering from relatively safe positions that you see in open-rules neutral-position grappling. The 'angry crab' that dominates BJJ competition is pointless in any real world fight. Those guys are getting punched in the head and kicked and such, or they are blind-side tackled, and so there is a genuine need to fight effectively from the types of fighting positions in which *shit is actually happening*, not safely fighting for millimeters of grip from neutral.

I agree that rule sets need to impart urgency to one or the other competitor, but that is exactly what truly open rule sets like Metamoris DON'T do. Positional points are better than Metamoris rules because they create some added urgency once somebody gets a point, but from what I've seen to date, EBI rules are better still.

At the end, if you couldn't get to those dominate position against your opponents, and being put in dominate postion because of a ruleset, fails to prove you were the better grappler.

" i got rafel mendes back!" No you didn't, you got place there bro you would never pass his guard let alone take his back.. lol
 
At the end, if you couldn't get to those dominate position against your opponents, and being put in dominate postion because of a ruleset, fails to prove you were the better grappler.

" i got rafel mendes back!" No you didn't, you got place there bro you would never pass his guard let alone take his back.. lol

Like I said, by that measure every BJJ athlete on the planet is basically complete shit as a grappler compared to a competitive judoka skilled in grip fighting, since even the best BJJer would get ass raped by them at the outset, and then stalled out. Cue Gorbag.

Grappling ability, if you want to speak about it broadly and COMPARE THE VALUE of different rulesets, is not defined by one specific ruleset. You have to consider what makes an effective grappler more broadly than that. For Rafa to be incredibly elite at sweeping featherweights and then dry humping them until a clock runs may be interesting, but it has very little application for grappling outside of a very specific ruleset and competitive situation.

Advancing position on the ground is an important grappling skill, sure, but it's just one piece of many other pieces. Treating it as the be-all and end-all of grappling significance is confused, because outside of that specific ruleset, very few other grappling-centered conflicts ---from self defense to MMA to other grappling styles --- are going to let you sit into guard and then sensuously and safely hump away the way the BJJ rules do. So the fact that you can hold somebody in spider guard and hump them for 20 minutes, preventing them from achieving dominant position under BJJ sport rules, is not much evidence of your grappling greatness *more broadly*. This is why elite sport BJJ competitors, for example, are often really shitty MMA grapplers. Because they just aren't that good at grappling in a *broader* sense, which encompasses situations like getting elbows dropped onto your head and axe kicks from standing and such, followed by a wrestler jumping on your back. No, they didn't pass your guard in a traditional BJJ sense, but again, that's simply not how all real-world grappling goes. Often they skip the foreplay by headbutting you from standing and then raining punches down on you as you turn your back.
 
Point base tournament actually make competitors take chances. If you are down you have to make something happen or you lose.

Ebi overtime says nothing if you couldn't get to those dominate position own.

or not.

are you going to tell me with a straight face that point bjj is actually fun to watch?

no is not, stalling is rampant, you get a point and stall the fuck out is way way waaaaay more commun than people fighting their asses off to get the point back, even if their are, specially in gi jiu jitsu, stallers normally win the battle

I guess you rather have a winner over a close sub attempt rather than a submission, even if the position was given the to them.

2 different formats, each one has its own merit EBI first goal is to sub, if not, you need to have a winner, and having a winner over draws are always better.

Lets not even get into the judges decision debate, that is a horrible way to end a match. But somehow, there are some people who find leaving the match on the hands of 3 party better than in the hands of the competitors.
 
or not.

are you going to tell me with a straight face that point bjj is actually fun to watch?

no is not, stalling is rampant, you get a point and stall the fuck out is way way waaaaay more commun than people fighting their asses off to get the point back, even if their are, specially in gi jiu jitsu, stallers normally win the battle

I guess you rather have a winner over a close sub attempt rather than a submission, even if the position was given the to them.

2 different formats, each one has its own merit EBI first goal is to sub, if not, you need to have a winner, and having a winner over draws are always better.

Lets not even get into the judges decision debate, that is a horrible way to end a match. But somehow, there are some people who find leaving the match on the hands of 3 party better than in the hands of the competitors.

Did i say anything about entertainment? No. I'm speaking on decided the better grappler. Ebi ruleset can be played as well. If you cant beat your opponent by subbing, than just play it out until overtime to be put in a dominate position.
 
Like I said, by that measure every BJJ athlete on the planet is basically complete shit as a grappler compared to a competitive judoka skilled in grip fighting, since even the best BJJer would get ass raped by them at the outset, and then stalled out. Cue Gorbag.

Grappling ability, if you want to speak about it broadly and COMPARE THE VALUE of different rulesets, is not defined by one specific ruleset. You have to consider what makes an effective grappler more broadly than that. For Rafa to be incredibly elite at sweeping featherweights and then dry humping them until a clock runs may be interesting, but it has very little application for grappling outside of a very specific ruleset and competitive situation.

Advancing position on the ground is an important grappling skill, sure, but it's just one piece of many other pieces. Treating it as the be-all and end-all of grappling significance is confused, because outside of that specific ruleset, very few other grappling-centered conflicts ---from self defense to MMA to other grappling styles --- are going to let you sit into guard and then sensuously and safely hump away the way the BJJ rules do. So the fact that you can hold somebody in spider guard and hump them for 20 minutes, preventing them from achieving dominant position under BJJ sport rules, is not much evidence of your grappling greatness *more broadly*. This is why elite sport BJJ competitors, for example, are often really shitty MMA grapplers. Because they just aren't that good at grappling in a *broader* sense, which encompasses situations like getting elbows dropped onto your head and axe kicks from standing and such, followed by a wrestler jumping on your back. No, they didn't pass your guard in a traditional BJJ sense, but again, that's simply not how all real-world grappling goes. Often they skip the foreplay by headbutting you from standing and then raining punches down on you as you turn your back.

Im talking about grappling, not mma dude. You arw starting a whole different conversation. I do agree with most of the mma part though.
 
Did i say anything about entertainment? No. I'm speaking on decided the better grappler. Ebi ruleset can be played as well. If you cant beat your opponent by subbing, than just play it out until overtime to be put in a dominate position.
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and you really think the best grappler is decided by who can stand up faster from 50/50 or how can fake more toe holds? how about who can stall the longest after achiving an advantage?

the best grapplers is a wide term not easy to reach. You can say the best competitor under certain type of rules, sure, best grappler for subgrappling? nop, for mma, nop.

Yes EBI rules can be played like all rule sets can be, still the decision on who wins and who does not is never on the hands of 3 party, and sure as hell is not based on who stood up faster from 50 50 or who ALMOST got a sub or a pass, which basically means jack shit.
 
At the end, if you couldn't get to those dominate position against your opponents, and being put in dominate postion because of a ruleset, fails to prove you were the better grappler.

" i got rafel mendes back!" No you didn't, you got place there bro you would never pass his guard let alone take his back.. lol

well, if rafa didnt want the guy to be artificially on his back, he shouldve gotten the job done by submiting him in regulation time, he basically DRAW to the other guy, but there has to be a winner, and I rather have it decide by whos better at submitting someone from X position than some dudes looking from the outside giving their opinion on who was better at the match.
 
well, if rafa didnt want the guy to be artificially on his back, he shouldve gotten the job done by submiting him in regulation time, he basically DRAW to the other guy, but there has to be a winner, and I rather have it decide by whos better at submitting someone from X position than some dudes looking from the outside giving their opinion on who was better at the match.

When your at their level, very hard to submit your opponent. Im happy with draw, dont want them put in dominate position for free.
 
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and you really think the best grappler is decided by who can stand up faster from 50/50 or how can fake more toe holds? how about who can stall the longest after achiving an advantage?

the best grapplers is a wide term not easy to reach. You can say the best competitor under certain type of rules, sure, best grappler for subgrappling? nop, for mma, nop.

Yes EBI rules can be played like all rule sets can be, still the decision on who wins and who does not is never on the hands of 3 party, and sure as hell is not based on who stood up faster from 50 50 or who ALMOST got a sub or a pass, which basically means jack shit.

Do you compete? You make it sound so easy.. lol
 
When your at their level, very hard to submit your opponent. Im happy with draw, dont want them put in dominate position for free.

its a tournament, you cant have a draw.
 
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