Max Kellerman saying Pacquiao the greatest of this era

[burningspear]

There are a lot of people disagreeing with Max, but not a lot of people addressing his reasoning.

Yep, that's how it goes here, a smartass quip or a diss on Max without even viewing the video.

 

[Social Distance Warrior]

There are a lot of people disagreeing with Max, but not a lot of people addressing his reasoning.

yea no shit. No one has really formulated a cogent rebuttal on the matter (not saying I agree with Max).

This is another clear cut example of how many Mayweather fans are simply the worst fucking fan base in sports history. Overly sensitive, hyperbolic and engage in frequent hero worship of their Deity, Mayweather.

it's fucking pathetic...it's only a matter of time before they resort to fighter bashing (some already have) and attempt to undermine Manny's victories and resume.

You see this in any thread involving Mayweather. Like the fictional fantasy match up thread with GGG.

I have never seen such overly sensitive, perpetually PMSing, douche bags who truly believe they are members of TMT.

Get a fucking life you assholes.

 

[Social Distance Warrior]

Oh, and I can't wait for the inevitable, "Max Kellerman is part of the HBO team, they have always been on Manny's nuts, look at Lampley, he always cries over Paquiao."

Predictable dipshits.

 

[Seano]

There are a lot of people disagreeing with Max, but not a lot of people addressing his reasoning.

I believe I gave a reasonable explanation as to why I rank Floyd higher.

 

[nac386]

I believe I gave a reasonable explanation as to why I rank Floyd higher.

Not everything is about YOU Seano!

 

[Seano]

Oh, and I can't wait for the inevitable, "Max Kellerman is part of the HBO team, they have always been on Manny's nuts, look at Lampley, he always cries over Paquiao."

Predictable dipshits.

No one is going to say it because its obvious.

 

[Seano]

Not everything is about YOU Seano!

Don't make generalizations then.

 

[nac386]

Don't make generalizations then.

Did I though?

There are a lot of people disagreeing with Max, but not a lot of people addressing his reasoning.

 

[Seano]

Did I though?

Sort of.

 

[nac386]

Sort of.

mmhmm.

 

[nac386]

 

[Canelo]

Maybe not him personally, but his team certainly did.

I'm sure everyone knows the Mosley story.

Manny's team rarely ducked anyone outright, they were just very careful about when fights took place, which was the same for Floyd too.

 

[nac386]

Maybe not him personally, but his team certainly did.

I'm sure everyone knows the Mosley story.

Manny's team rarely ducked anyone outright, they were just very careful about when fights took place, which was the same for Floyd too.

If he fought Mosley, people would say he ducked Cotto. If he fought Cotto and Mosley, people would say he ducked Hatton.

 

[Canelo]

If he fought Mosley, people would say he ducked Cotto. If he fought Cotto and Mosley, people would say he ducked Hatton.

His team were the ones who offered Mosley the fight, only they did so at 142lbs, which Mosley obviously rejected. When he asked why they would fight DLH at 147 and not him, Roach replied by saying 'You're not Oscar and you are too good of a fighter'.

Roach then went on record saying he thought Cotto was damaged goods and they fought him at a CW instead.

As soon as Floyd beat the shit out of Mosley, they were all good for him at 147lbs even though he was much less sellable than before.

That's just standard Roach strategy, he picked Oscar because he knew he was damaged goods, he believed Cotto was also ripe for the picking. He didn't see that in Shane until Floyd showed it, that's the only reason they fought.

 

[nac386]

His team were the ones who offered Mosley the fight, only they did so at 142lbs, which Mosley obviously rejected. When he asked why they would fight DLH at 147 and not him, Roach replied by saying 'You're not Oscar and you are too good of a fighter'.

Roach then went on record saying he thought Cotto was damaged goods and they fought him at a CW instead.

As soon as Floyd beat the shit out of Mosley, they were all good for him at 147lbs even though he was much less sellable than before.

That's just standard Roach strategy, he picked Oscar because he knew he was damaged goods, he believed Cotto was also ripe for the picking. He didn't see that in Shane until Floyd showed it, that's the only reason they fought.

When you jump up in weight as much as Manny did at that time, you are not obviously not going to be in a hurry to fight a guy who walks into the ring at 160 (Mosley's weight against Margarito). Fighting Hatton and Cotto at the time was more than admirable, and should not be considered ducking the 3rd option. The guy that was not selected is always ducked by that standard.

 

[Canelo]

When you jump up in weight as much as Manny did at that time, you are not obviously not going to be in a hurry to fight a guy who walks into the ring at 160 (Mosley's weight against Margarito). Fighting Hatton and Cotto at the time was more than admirable, and should not be considered ducking the 3rd option. The guy that was not selected is always ducked by that standard.

If they weren't in a hurry to fight him, they shouldn't have specifically targeted him for a fight at 142lbs and turned down the fight at 147 because they thought he was too dangerous. If Mosley was the one chasing the fight initially and they picked Cotto instead, then it's different, but Roach wanted Mosley, but only if he was handicapped by weight.

Roach has done this his whole career, he is an excellent matchmaker, and that's all 'ducking' is. Most cases of ducking are simply strategic decisions, whether it be based on money or likelihood of winning.

Shane was a beast at that point. Giving him the fight after he'd been shown to be old and shot was distasteful and didn't sit well with boxing fans at the time. It's the perfect example of selective matchmaking that was called 'ducking' for a lot of Floyd's later career.

 

[nac386]

If they weren't in a hurry to fight him, they shouldn't have specifically targeted him for a fight at 142lbs and turned down the fight at 147 because they thought he was too dangerous. If Mosley was the one chasing the fight initially and they picked Cotto instead, then it's different, but Roach wanted Mosley, but only if he was handicapped by weight.

Too big. If Mosley was Pac's size they would have fought.

When you do what Pacquiao did and go up to fight guys much bigger than you, fans expect you to give all of these bigger guys equal treatment. That just isn't realistic.

Right now it is going on with GGG. People are actually giving him shit because he said he would go to 168 for Froch but not Ward.

The fact that he would go above his class is already admirable. The fact that he does not just to do that for anybody is not ducking. You can only give up so many advantages before you're just being reckless.

Roach has done this his whole career, he is an excellent matchmaker, and that's all 'ducking' is. Most cases of ducking are simply strategic decisions, whether it be based on money or likelihood of winning.

Shane was a beast at that point. Giving him the fight after he'd been shown to be old and shot was distasteful and didn't sit well with boxing fans at the time. It's the perfect example of selective matchmaking that was called 'ducking' for a lot of Floyd's later career.

I mostly agree here. The main difference is Manny is seen as a guy who's real peers were Morales, JMM, Barrera. He fought those guys repeatedly. Manny fighting welterweights has to be look that a little bit differently. Floyd is a much bigger person.

 

[Canelo]

Too big. If Mosley was Pac's size they would have fought.

When you do what Pacquiao did and go up to fight guys much bigger than you, fans expect you to give all of these bigger guys equal treatment. That just isn't realistic.

Right now it is going on with GGG. People are actually giving him shit because he said he would go to 168 for Froch but not Ward.

The fact that he would go above his class is already admirable. The fact that he does not just to do that for anybody is not ducking. You can only give up so many advantages before you're just being reckless.



I mostly agree here. The main difference is Manny is seen as a guy who's real peers were Morales, JMM, Barrera. He thought those guys repeatedly. Manny fighting welterweights has to be look that a little bit differently. Floyd is a much bigger person.

Manny matured into a WW and had already fought Oscar at 147 and was fighting Cotto at 145. Mosley is the same size as both of them and they wouldn't fight him at anything above 142lbs, so size clearly wasn't the only factor. Ability and risk definitely featured in the decision and Roach said so himself. Weight wasn't an issue once Mosley was shot either, he was fine with 147 once that risk was taken away. The size thing is overstated, Roach preferred Pac against bigger guys, he speed and mobility terrorised them. Margarito had a huge size advantage that they couldn't have cared less about. Roach has never worried about match Pac up against bigger guys.

Floyd isn't a much bigger person either, they both way the same on fight night. Just because Floyd is taller and has longer arms doesn't mean he is much bigger. All body types have their advantages, go compare Pacquiao's legs to Floyds, they are much thicker. Floyd has advantages that come as a result of his length, and I'm sure Pacquiao's naturally thick legs are at the route of his punching power and resistance. Ultimately they both weigh around the same, with Floyd's walking around weight being slightly higher, but he isn't much bigger that in the frame of general welterweights, they are both small welters.

 

[nac386]

Manny matured into a WW and had already fought Oscar at 147 and was fighting Cotto at 145. Mosley is the same size as both of them and they wouldn't fight him at anything above 142lbs, so size clearly wasn't the only factor. Ability and risk definitely featured in the decision and Roach said so himself. Weight wasn't an issue once Mosley was shot either, he was fine with 147 once that risk was taken away. The size thing is overstated, Roach preferred Pac against bigger guys, he speed and mobility terrorised them. Margarito had a huge size advantage that they couldn't have cared less about. Roach has never worried about match Pac up against bigger guys.

Floyd isn't a much bigger person either, they both way the same on fight night. Just because Floyd is taller and has longer arms doesn't mean he is much bigger. All body types have their advantages, go compare Pacquiao's legs to Floyds, they are much thicker. Floyd has advantages that come as a result of his length, and I'm sure Pacquiao's naturally thick legs are at the route of his punching power and resistance. Ultimately they both weigh around the same, with Floyd's walking around weight being slightly higher, but he isn't much bigger that in the frame of general welterweights, they are both small welters.

I must not have been clear. What I was trying to say is that when you go really far up in weight you have to be more selective about the match up. Cotto and DLH were better matchups. Mosley did not have more ability than Cotto. Cotto beat Mosley.

Pacquiao had not matured into a welterweight when he fought Oscar. The fight before that he was a lightweight and the fight after that he was a light welterweight.

Floyd is much bigger than Manny. Floyd could buff up to 160 just like manny buffed up to 147. Floyd is obviously a bigger guy.

 

[nac386]

Algieri fought at 140, and he said that he is a much larger man in every single way than Manny, who should be a lightweight.

Fighters manipulate their weight. But that does not change how big they are naturally.