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Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by McGruber, Dec 5, 2017.
Well don't bother telling us I guess
Pretty certain I've read that US Track and Field caught lots of athletes prior to the LA Olympics and just let them compete.
I used steroids back in the day and I didn't make a dime from the sport I competed in. I just wanted to be stronger and faster. Easy to figure out why people continue to dope when there are millions on the line...or why organizations turn a blind eye to cheating.
They did. If they had of released the data, pretty much the whole US team would have been busted. That wasn't USADA though, but it shows anti-doping agencies have never been beacons of morality.
Yeah, no shit. And when entire countries are actively participating in a doping program, well, WADA seems to take a while to catch on or catch up. Assuming they actually do.
Rogan posted a Netflix movie suggestion on Twitter about the head of the Russian testing group. Documentary took a twist but it was pretty interesting to see how easily this guy said it was to avoid testing positive. Made it seem like a walk in the park.
I disagree with the assumption that you just let everyone dope but agree with the problems with keeping people in check. I can't stand Armstrong but I understand the logic of athletes that say I can't compete clean when everyone is cheating.
And I, generally speaking, think a lot of athletes are looking for ways to cheat. Like the homerun records by Bonds, et al the general feeling is if it's good for the sport then why not let the boys have a run at it? Players get better contracts, TV gets better ratings, clubs get better attendance and franchise value, more money in MLB coffers overall.
Not too difficult to see why national and international orgs want testing from a PR perspective but aren't too upset with folks that avoid testing positive.
Not that difficult when the statistics tells us that less than 4% of the athletes who use are caught.
True. Really a shit situation. Some sports (smaller) have tested and non-tested divisions. Seems pretty straight-forward, and the numbers seem to reflect a certain degree of consistency. But assholes still try to cheat even then.
As the saying goes "People go to the circus to see the elephants." Perhaps not any more, from what I understand about the circus, but you get what I mean. And when you get a kid who comes from nowhere and has never had shit to his name, and he knows that sometimes what comes out of a vial can be the difference between a million dollar contract and his ass getting shipped back to the projects, or the corn-fields, or whatever the fuck, well, it is a fairly obvious choice.
lol, yep, read my post above. I did it and didn't make a dime from it. Just wanted to be bigger, stronger, faster. No question what I would have done with millions on the line.
Were entering a similar situation now as well with athletics becoming a battleground in a neo cold war with Russia.
Were the positives in the 1990s beyond reasonable doubt? Googling says Don Caitlin knew about it but couldn't get the confirmation.
The first time when Armstrong made big news was in 2012 I think for plastic residues and then other bits started coming out. He had a ton of defenders here.
Do you yourself know much about Kellerman?
The guy is always talking shit and saying everything is corrupt.
Has lost many jobs and then went on tirades about his former employers.
Kellerman is always trying to get attention by being provocative with making accusations. It only got worse once he started with CNN. He give opinions based on have truths and inuendo. Nothing ever truly based on fact.
Nah, long long time before 2012
The epo tests was 2005. Then the sca promotions case when betsy outed him at a similar time. La confidentiel was published around then as well.
You just didn't read the news
Not sure where you are getting the plastic residues from. I that was contador
Sounds like it. Why not use the VADA service thats 10x cheaper than USADA and catches more people with superior testing method? Obviously you don't want ppl caught much and want to say you have testing for public consumption. Just imagine how much you PEDs you have to do to get caught by USADA.
Also explains why guys continue to get clipped even know they know they are tested- they think they can stay under USADAs thresholds. Some miscalculate.
He sure dumped her azzzz....didn't he.
Which is why Jamaica failed their Wada audit and got in the shit. The same as Kenya, the same in Russia. That's why Wada are there.
Nobody in anti doping will ever claim that totally clean sport is an aim or is realistic. Nobody. Athletes and coaches and doctors will always be one step ahead, that's the nature of anything involving illegal activity. Its no different with criminals, or people writing add ons for kodi to download content illegally. It will always be a game of cat and mouse.
But you miss the point on what the aims of anti doping are. You act like the only role of people in anti doping is to catch people with drug tests. It's not.
It could be argued that isn't even the primary role of anti doping organisations.
USADAs primary role is education and this can be said for most nado's. Teaching athletes how to compete clean. Teaching them about dangers and risks, education younger athletes on the ethics of clean sport. That is the bulk if their work.
Testing is just a small part of that, it's a deterrent, but it was never intended to be, nor will it ever be a final solution to the problem of doping in sport.
You measure anti doping agencies on the percentage rate of positive tests, something that isn't even their primary role.
Others measure success in different ways. An athletes that compete clean, that can go to a major championships and win a medal, and that is what the anti doping community would measure as success.
In fact, every time USADA catch an athletes doping that means they have failed in their primary role which is to educate.
Vada is not 10x cheaper
Vada do not employ superior testing methods (in fact the absence of a biological passport program would suggest that vadas program is significantly inferior)
Plus, how would you feel about a ufc anti doping program where they don't even release testing numbers, where we don't find out who was tested and how many times?
You really think that is a superior program?
And what USADA thresholds? You realise neither vada or USADA do the actual analysis themselves and use the same labs to do it?
He's an HBO boxing commentator and you know HBO hates MMA
And how long did this take? How many athletes compete with sub-standard controls?
Sure. People educate themselves on how to beat testing. This is why less than 4% are caught. Sorry, but that level of performance is absolute shit, and there is no excuse you can make to justify it. I, embarrassingly enough, still work for the US gvt., and we will not tolerate that level of performance. What does that tell you?
And, hypothetically speaking, if a tester colludes with a tested athlete to provide a clean sample (numerous ways this can done) how will WADA know?
The devil you say?!?
so is all of boxing
So wtats your point? because no system can ever be perfect we shouldnt bother? I dont even see what you are getting at tbh
and hypothetically. this clean sample the athlete was able to provide, will that sample have a steroidal and endocrilogical profile that matches their previous samples? The most obvious method of detecting a sample provided by an athlete that was for instance, not their own, would be the biological passport.
Yes, its possible, but you have to have some sort of faith in the system, some faith in the ethics and morals of the people in the system or theres no fucking point whatsoever.
its possible to get away with murder, that doesnt mean we should just say fuck it and legalise murder.
im really not sure what your point is, but then Im not sure you do either