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It's more than "some", the fighters in the organization were saying these things.
Keep denying.
Masakatsu Funaki??
- Thread starter minotauro11
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It's more than "some", the fighters in the organization were saying these things.
Keep denying.
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Big deal.
Look at what ure sayin´:
"THE book"...
"THE fighters in the organization"..
Rigor is ur thing, right?
U have SOME fighters sayin´ SOME things in ur book, is it the Bible or somethin´? Coz OTHER fighters said OTHER things:
Guy Mezger aknowledged it:
he declared that > " "SOME" [4 or 5 max] of those fights were fixed, thats true ",
but he added that:
"the fans who keep claiming that MOST OF THE FIGHTS were fixed... well.. they just DONT KNOW WHAT THEY´RE TALKIN´ABOUT.. And that´s pretty sad."
Sayin´that Pancrase in Japan was ALL rigged... while Boxing in US or Soccer in Europe or Asia, were HISTORICALLY much more corrupted... That´s cute.
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When Ozaki still was the president of Pancrase, they approached Shooto organization with plan to co-promote shows. Shooto simply replied "Make public statement in which you guys admit what you had done in the past- fixed fights. Then we can talk."
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Snowflake,
I'm not about to type out an entire chapter to you. When Bas is thinking Funaki is taking him out to dinner to ask him to throw a fight....When Frank wasn't sure what was real and what wasn't, among other things, that's an interesting read. You can believe the fighters that said their fights weren't fixed while others fights were if you so desire.
Guy Mezger claiming only four or five fights were fixed would indicate that he was involved in every discussion with regards to every fight with management? That's riveting. Tell us more.
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Hey, paperboy...
I believe u didnt get what I said. I just dont give a damn about ur book. This is ONE version of the story.
I consider Bas and Frank reliable dudes, but Guy is reliable too, he has always been an articulate and intelligent person.
This is the difference btw u & me: I respected ur Bas & Frank references, while ure cluelessly dismissin´ Guy´s own experience.
Hence...U know what? Instead of spittin ur blablabla..
Right now, we dont know about ur opinion, ure only REPEATING the writer´s opinion like a parrot.
So BE CONSTRUCTIVE:
U said that MOST OF THE FIGHTS were fixed? Pretty easy to say somethin´like this, but u have to show it:
Give us 5-10 examples (should be easy if most were fixed) and lets study:
1/The context of the fight
[ex: some people say the Taktarov vs Macias fight was fixed... but Taktarov = LHW, Macias = WW...]
2/The objective
[did it make sense to fix the fight?]
3/ The decisive & suspect move of the fight
[a suspect RNC, or leg lock]
Its not that difficult to assess whether a fight is suspect or not...
Or u need the writer´s opinion to express ur own?
The 2nd Rickson vs Rei Zulu is suspect...
The Funaki vs Ken is suspect...
The Coleman vs Takada is suspect..
Ace vs Ken is suspect (amateurish leglock attempt)..
etcetc
Heck.. even Cormier vs Rumble 2 could be suspect...
PS: remember:
1- we´re talkin about FIXED fights, not CARRY JOBS.
2- someone payin a fighter to fight his ass out of a sub, is a different thing
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E
Edwin
Guest
It was a pro-wrestlig match.
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My opinion is based off interviews with various fighters within Pancrase. I don't limit it to one guy (or Guy) to support my narrative. It's not even a matter of respect, but taking more than one perspective of the fighters that disclosed information plus those that didn't want to disclose, which also says something. There were more fighters that either didn't want to be quoted or provided quotes about the inner workings of Pancrase. Am I being a parrot for saying multiple sources within Pancrase said fishy things were happening within the company? Do you want me to name them all? Is your so-called educated/informed opinion more valid than the fighters themselves?
Please find in my posts where I said "most of the fights were fixed."
A fight can be fixed with only one participant knowing that it is fixed. That is when it's not going to be as cut and dry to be able to tell what is going on; a work is more obvious.
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U said>
"It's more than "some", "
Still waitin´:
"
Give us 5-10 examples (should be easy if most were fixed) and lets study:
1/The context of the fight
[ex: some people say the Taktarov vs Macias fight was fixed... but Taktarov = LHW, Macias = WW...]
2/The objective
[did it make sense to fix the fight?]
3/ The decisive & suspect move of the fight
[a suspect RNC, or leg lock]
"
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Best hair of all time.
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By 1995 he was 1-2
This guy was #3!
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Jason 3rd fight was definitely fishy but according to most that were there funaki was toying with him and paid price and got caught
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...The definition of a Carry Job.
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Yep
Ken funaki and Suzuki did it
Only ones that have been confirmed
They were best and Japanese loved a show
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Funaki let Manabu Yamada defeat him in an early Pancrase event and Minowaman deliberately got caught in a leglock and tapped out to Funaki at Dream6. Nobody says anything about those fights although the outcomes for them were controlled by the intention of the fighters.
Did anybody tell Funaki and Minowaman to lose? No. They lost out of honor and respect for their opponents. The fights were fake in terms of sport competition but real as life experience.
And real life of us humans consists of fake and real behaviors of ours in every environment at any age.
Life is not a sport. It's all about politics, actualization of internal myths and expressions of self-complication.
People who accuse Funai of setting up rigged fights are probably assuming that Funaki did so to sell tickets or make his guys look good against foreign fighters. They have no fuckin ideas. All Funaki wanted was to challenge the world to a realization that humanity is more important than sportsmanship and that honor and dignity of warriors are far more valuable to be displayed in the ring than wins and losses of Nick Nutter clones.
Did anybody tell Funaki and Minowaman to lose? No. They lost out of honor and respect for their opponents. The fights were fake in terms of sport competition but real as life experience.
And real life of us humans consists of fake and real behaviors of ours in every environment at any age.
Life is not a sport. It's all about politics, actualization of internal myths and expressions of self-complication.
People who accuse Funai of setting up rigged fights are probably assuming that Funaki did so to sell tickets or make his guys look good against foreign fighters. They have no fuckin ideas. All Funaki wanted was to challenge the world to a realization that humanity is more important than sportsmanship and that honor and dignity of warriors are far more valuable to be displayed in the ring than wins and losses of Nick Nutter clones.
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A lot of people think JMMA begins in 1997, sadly Funaki gets written out of history a lot.
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???
When that fight occurred (remember it well, it was a good time for me since Saku just subbed Shibata then Funaki) I had been following JMMA for... a bunch of years, and when Minowa vs Funaki happened nobody was talking about it being fixed...
Or did I miss something?
Also, it kinda suck to realize that after many years of commentating and liking the dude as a fighter too, but Bas is full of shit sometimes.
Or he likes to imply stuff that make him look more connected that he is... one example, the Wand/KH "Ko", it was Bas who did that exclusive interview & then told everyone that it happened.
Literally every fighter from that era that talked about that story, when they were asked "wow and how do you know it happened like that since only Wand & KH were in the room?"
... "Well Bas told me, but he is very reliable so..."
And many more things,
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^^^one of the reasons I have a hard time believing his stories about Jerry Millen.
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And it helped that Funaki's body was basically destroyed by then and he blew out his knee during the fight.
I wish Rickson fought Sak or one of the Shamrock brothers instead.
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