Marines to send Wookies to infantry training on west coast. Update: Most fail initial physical

[Darkballs]

Nooooo! They've done away with the 'boys club'. No women in the Infantry! Daddy wanted a boy, but he got a girl instead...

We don't need additional people in the infantry. The military has no problem filling these positions. There isn't a lack of qualified applicants.

Allowing women in the infantry will lower the standards. It has happened every time the military has gone through gender integration. Women will fail at a higher rate than men. When they do, rather than stick to the standards we have now, politicians, media, and people like you will start questioning why the standards are the way they are. With very little (if any) military service to understand the standards, these groups will insist that the standards are to blame. Women can't be to blame, the standards must be biased. This happened when women were first allowed into the Marine Corps. They failed the physical fitness tests, blame was laid on the tests, and they were relaxed in waves until enough women were passing. Same thing happened when women were allowed on combat ships in the navy. Same thing happened when women were allowed to fly combat aircraft. And the same thing is happening now with women failing out of their respective school but still being put in charge of infantry platoons/companies.

This may mean very little to you, but to those who served, or are currently serving, this could pose a genuine risk to their lives. You have a person in charge of a unit that couldn't even perform the basics in their training. How are they going to be effective leaders? Would you trust someone who failed the entrance tests over someone who passed?

 

[Phr3121]

Women can't be to blame, the standards must be biased.

Served 7 years in the U.S. Army Infantry. Every woman who joins the Infantry is making a choice. You can certainly blame them for that. Why the Infantry as a woman? Guys don't want you. Your chain of command doesn't want you. Your life will be miserable. Sexual harassment, maybe rape. Slow to zero advancement as a career MOS. Skills will not translate to the civilian world. So many other MOSs where life would be easier. Good advancement and career. Skills that translate into the civilian market. Again, are they doing this for their father's? Are they trying to prove something to themselves or others? What if the experiment fails in combat? Ready to come home with missing limbs? Come on ladies, join a safe MOS that will keep you happy and alive.

 

[Phr3121]

Here we go again...

 

[Toothless King]

Nooooo! They've done away with the 'boys club'. No women in the Infantry! Daddy wanted a boy, but he got a girl instead...

I'd be OK if women held to the same standards as male in infantry school, but they aren't.

Ask me how I know.

 

[BassAckwards]

its bad enough we have high rates of suicide and ptsd. adding women to infantry units will not only increase those rates, it will also expose males to pms

 

[Phr3121]

Ask me how I know.

You were an Infantry officer in the U.S. Army? What is going on at the Ft. Benning Infantry school? 'The Ft. Benning school for boys'...

 

[Toothless King]

You were an Infantry officer in the U.S. Army? What is going on at the Ft. Benning Infantry school? 'The Ft. Benning school for boys'...

Benning was no longer a school for boys since last year after they had the first 10 female LTs graduated from infantry BOLC. Female infantry soldiers are still permit to take female APFT standard.

I haven't been to Benning since 2012 for BOLC, but I still have contact with a lot of my former classmates and some of them are cadres/instructors at Benning.

 

[Phr3121]

Benning was no longer a school for boys since last year after they had the first 10 female LTs graduated from infantry BOLC.

Great memories of an all male Ft. Benning from Basic, AIT, and IOBC. Seems like the U.S. Army changes acronyms every couple of years. I can't imagine that place with women. Now even in Ranger school. I still don't see what a woman gets out of being in an Infantry unit. I guess they want to shoot and kill the enemy. That better be one of the top reasons. No baking classes during AIT...

 

[BassAckwards]

Great memories of an all male Ft. Benning from Basic, AIT, and IOBC. Seems like the U.S. Army changes acronyms every couple of years. I can't imagine that place with women. Now even in Ranger school. I still don't see what a woman gets out of being in an Infantry unit. I guess they want to shoot and kill the enemy. That better be one of the top reasons. No baking classes during AIT...

one of the big push to get women into combat MOS' is for higher promotion potential. DoD a few years back took a look at their diversity reports and realized that there werent enough women and diversity at the O6 and higher ranks. the reason is that women either got out of the service after their commitments were done or were stuck in non-combat MOS' and could not compete against their male counterparts because the men went to combat and recieved awards and citations, whereas they could not go and could not have the chance to earn them. politicians felt that repealing the restrictions on females in combat MOS' would allow more women the chance to join and go into those combat MOS'. by opening up more female quotas, it would also allow more women into higher ranked positions.

 

[Phr3121]

One of the big push to get women into combat MOS' is for higher promotion potential. DoD a few years back took a look at their diversity reports and realized that there werent enough women and diversity at the O6 and higher ranks. The reason is that women either got out of the service after their commitments were done or were stuck in non-combat MOS' and could not compete against their male counterparts because the men went to combat and recieved awards and citations, whereas they could not go and could not have the chance to earn them.

I don't know that I agree with that. O-4 and above will rarely see combat. That is a job for Lieutenants and Captains. Company grade officers. NCOs from E-5 to E-7. Anything above E-7 will also rarely see combat. How do you account for promotion in the U.S. Air Force and U.S. Navy? They are getting promoted and not seeing combat.

 

[Streeter]

1 in 250 would make it under same standards ....... u know they will be loosening standards in fear of sexism claims

 

[BassAckwards]

I don't know that I agree with that. O-4 and above will rarely see combat. That is a job for Lieutenants and Captains. Company grade officers. NCOs from E-5 to E-7. Anything above E-7 will also rarely see combat. How do you account for promotion in the U.S. Air Force and U.S. Navy? They are getting promoted and not seeing combat.

a decorated O3 with several combat tours would beat out an O3 without combat tours for career enhancing positions. lets face it, who would you chose leading a battalion? someone who has experience leading a company or someone who worked in the S1 shop or motor T? who would you chose running a regiment? someone with experience running a battalion or someone who has been running an HQ? It's all about experience and women arent competitive because they cant get to those jobs that will give them the necessary experience for leadership. selecting a woman for the sake of diversity would piss off everyone in that year group and that person would forever be known as a minority quota. same with enlisted; who would get the career enhancing opportunities or a higher eval?

I cant speak for the air force but for the navy, most of our jobs will never see combat. the only closed jobs were the specwar (SEAL/SWCC) and in the subs. they've opened them up to women in the Navy but they arent interested in SEAL/SWCC. as far as subs go, most of the female submarine applicants were supply corps officers that would only do one tour on the subs and never step foot on it again, although there are now more female engineering officers coming through the pipeline. The issue with the Navy is that most women are in career fields that are community/job specific, so promotion is already limited. you have to also account for attrition. for example, despite recruitment efforts, 15% of the recruit population are female. add to the fact that about 50% of people reenlist after their first enlistment, the % of females staying in gets smaller and smaller the higher up you go. for enlisted, men and women are basically equal because they have to test for their advancement. making E7 is dependent on your test scores and eval and pass the selection board. i know guys that volunteered for duty in iraq and got promoted because their combat tour made them stand out against their peers

 

[My Spot]

Imagine a female 0331 humping the .50 cal receiver or an 0341 carrying the 81mm tube or baseplate up those hills on the 20 klicker. I'm sure there won't be any special treatment at all.

 

[Rozko]

Imagine a female 0331 humping the .50 cal receiver or an 0341 carrying the 81mm tube or baseplate up those hills on the 20 klicker. I'm sure there won't be any special treatment at all.

Hahaha, that debilitating injury would happen quick.

 

[Phr3121]

A decorated O3 with several combat tours would beat out an O3 without combat tours for career enhancing positions. It's all about experience and women arent competitive because they cant get to those jobs that will give them the necessary experience for leadership. I know guys that volunteered for duty in iraq and got promoted because their combat tour made them stand out against their peers.

You bring up some valid points but it does not always work like that. Examples:

. General Norman Schwarzkopf was Commander-in-Chief, U.S. Central Command, while leading all coalition forces in the Gulf War in 1991. He was a U.S. Army Infantry officer not Ranger qualified.

. General Bantz Craddock was the U.S. Southern Command Commander in 2006 when I was assigned there. He too was not Ranger qualified and a four star General in the U.S. Army.

. When my Civil Affairs Battalion was getting ready to deploy to Iraq in 2003, it had the commander replaced. Not because he fucked up or anything. The original Commander was a West Point graduate, Ranger qualified LTC with a lot of experience. His replacement was a female black officer with zero experience.

. Combat tours alone will not get you a particular job. Politics play a big part in that decision. Plus what kind of combat tour or deployment are we talking about? Many soldiers who deployed never saw combat and had desk jobs. Even in combat units, not everyone got to see combat. You can be assigned to a combat unit and have a desk job. You also had many 'duds' who saw combat but were worthless leaders both as officers and NCOs. The key is going to be their OERs and NCOERs (their rating evaluation by their superiors). You had guys in Vietnam being awarded the CIB (Combat Infantry Badge) who never saw combat, but their unit did. How bogus is that?

 

[BassAckwards]

You bring up some valid points but it does not always work like that. Examples:

. General Norman Schwarzkopf was Commander-in-Chief, U.S. Central Command, while leading all coalition forces in the Gulf War in 1991. He was a U.S. Army Infantry officer not Ranger qualified.

. General Bantz Craddock was the U.S. Southern Command Commander in 2006 when I was assigned there. He too was not Ranger qualified and a four star General in the U.S. Army.

. When my Civil Affairs Battalion was getting ready to deploy to Iraq in 2003, it had the commander replaced. Not because he fucked up or anything. The original Commander was a West Point graduate, Ranger qualified LTC with a lot of experience. His replacement was a female black officer with zero experience.

. Combat tours alone will not get you a particular job. Politics play a big part in that decision. Plus what kind of combat tour or deployment are we talking about? Many soldiers who deployed never saw combat and had desk jobs. Even in combat units, not everyone got to see combat. You can be assigned to a combat unit and have a desk job. You also had many 'duds' who saw combat but were worthless leaders both as officers and NCOs. The key is going to be their OERs and NCOERs (their rating evaluation by their superiors). You had guys in Vietnam being awarded the CIB (Combat Infantry Badge) who never saw combat, but their unit did. How bogus is that?

i agree with you on your points. combat is not required but the report i read and the working papers to DoD addressed the issues i had mentioned, in that women were not given the opportunity to be assigned to those types of units, which "would" have affected their "potential". if women want those jobs, give it to them, just down dumb down the standard for them

 

[Toothless King]

I don't know that I agree with that. O-4 and above will rarely see combat. That is a job for Lieutenants and Captains. Company grade officers. NCOs from E-5 to E-7. Anything above E-7 will also rarely see combat. How do you account for promotion in the U.S. Air Force and U.S. Navy? They are getting promoted and not seeing combat.

are you in the military?

i don't know about other services but i can guarantee you that you won't get past o-5 in the army if you don't have a few combat deployments under your belt. a ranger tab, CIB, and SF tab are a plus

yes, it's possible o-4 to be in combat because they used to be 0-1

 

[Toothless King]

i agree with you on your points. combat is not required but the report i read and the working papers to DoD addressed the issues i had mentioned, in that women were not given the opportunity to be assigned to those types of units, which "would" have affected their "potential". if women want those jobs, give it to them, just down dumb down the standard for them

i branched infantry and served as a PL for an inf platoon. i am now a CO for a logistic company. someone who branched logistic cannot be a CO for an inf company.

so yeah, being in combat armed opens a lot of doors for you

 

[Phr3121]

Are you in the military? I don't know about other services but I can guarantee you that you won't get past O-5 in the Army if you don't have a few combat deployments under your belt, a Ranger tab, CIB, and SF tab are a plus. Yes, it's possible O-4 to be in combat

Yes I was. I told you about it. U.S. Army like you. Oh you'll get past O-5 in the U.S. Army without a deployment. Getting the schooling completed is more important than a deployment. I've seen it. I would say a Ranger tab only if you are in a combat MOS. It is possible for Majors to be in combat but that is not the norm. They are field grade officers. Field grade officers are usually the planners in the rear. The 'staff pukes', 'staff wiener', 'desk jokey'. I'm sorry to say I eventually became one of them...

 

[ShinkanPo]

Yehey wookies!! So why not train in Kashyk?