Maia had some of the best wrestling out of any BJJ player in MMA (gif heavy)

[Liverkick-king56]

Doubly alert doesn't explain 1 TD out of 67. That's just a terrible excuse. 1 out of 67 meas you are not only bad, you're also not improving or adapting, it means you're just trying the same shit over and over expecting things to change. If Luke can evolve, if TJ can go from a 1 dimensional wrestler to one of the best strikers in his division, then wtf is Maia doing spamming the same TDs and getting stuffed by the same wrestlers since 2011?

You're blindly hating on the guy, maia is a great takedown artist and is able to take most fighters down but he has limited striking. Even great wrestlers like Cormier, Khabib and gsp use striking to set up their takedowns.

 

[fractal]

A wrestler defends TDs from everyone. Rockhold (a BJJ guy) took down Weidman twice out of 4 attempts. Mark Munoz has 57% TDD, basically he gets taken down 1 out of 2 attempts. Even Luke Barnatt took his ass down.

There's no excuse or explanation for 1 out of 67 other than he's just terrible.

Like someone else already pointed out, and you should know too, assuming you have watched the fight, Rockhold's second takedown was due to a Weidman missing the kick. I don't remember what the first TD came from, but Rockhold is much more than just a BJJ guy. He trains at AKA which is a home for some of the best wrestlers. He's also a big guy and size plays a big factor in takedowns. Maia is dwarfed in both size and strength by strong wrestlers he's been fighting lately.

If you look beyond the stats there's a good explanation to these. Maia's TD work when he's able to get close to his opponent and go for the single. I don't remember the Weidman and Munoz fights, but against Woodley, Usman and Colby they were very good at keeping Maia away. And after Maia fails on the first few TDs, the later ones are just desperate attempts from across the cage. The same thing happened against Anderson. After Maia got beat up for the first two rounds, he had nothing left in him to secure the TD. And of course Anderson played it very safe.

Let's take the Rory fight. When Maia was fresh he was able to take Rory down and control him very well for the first round, trying very hard for the finish and gassed. After that and went 1/18 in TDs. Once Maia gasses he just shoots aimlessly without any setups. However being able to take Rory down itself is pretty remarkable. Tyron went 0/2 in TDs against him. Now if you nitpick and compare percentages that makes Tyron worse at TDs than Maia, which is obviously not true. So you have to look at this objectively.

No one is saying Maia is great TD artist. For a BJJ guy he has very good TDs, espcially from the high single. Most top level BJJ guys don't even go for TDs. They rely on sweeps and clinch work.

It just seems like you have a vendetta against Maia or BJJ and are trying to argue a point that no one is contesting. Not sure why.

 

[lenbiasgoat]

His throw sub vs sonnen was great.. my guy bj wasn't bad either.. I remember him wrestling Fitch pretty well til the 3rd rd

 

[Magnum1978]

I know how hard it is to remain competitive at 40. Its fucking hard.

All respect to maia, he's a beast. If he was 32-35 with his skills, he'd still be using that single leg against anyone. Its literally the best in MMA, he's just gotten older, less explosing, slower.

I still think his single leg/cage fence/back take game is technically the best MMA has seen. He's opened a new school on singles against the cage with his approach

 

[LouisBolanos]

Like someone else already pointed out, and you should know too, assuming you have watched the fight, Rockhold's second takedown was due to a Weidman missing the kick. I don't remember what the first TD came from, but Rockhold is much more than just a BJJ guy. He trains at AKA which is a home for some of the best wrestlers. He's also a big guy and size plays a big factor in takedowns. Maia is dwarfed in both size and strength by strong wrestlers he's been fighting lately.

If you look beyond the stats there's a good explanation to these. Maia's TD work when he's able to get close to his opponent and go for the single. I don't remember the Weidman and Munoz fights, but against Woodley, Usman and Colby they were very good at keeping Maia away. And after Maia fails on the first few TDs, the later ones are just desperate attempts from across the cage. The same thing happened against Anderson. After Maia got beat up for the first two rounds, he had nothing left in him to secure the TD. And of course Anderson played it very safe.

Let's take the Rory fight. When Maia was fresh he was able to take Rory down and control him very well for the first round, trying very hard for the finish and gassed. After that and went 1/18 in TDs. Once Maia gasses he just shoots aimlessly without any setups. However being able to take Rory down itself is pretty remarkable. Tyron went 0/2 in TDs against him. Now if you nitpick and compare percentages that makes Tyron worse at TDs than Maia, which is obviously not true. So you have to look at this objectively.

No one is saying Maia is great TD artist. For a BJJ guy he has very good TDs, espcially from the high single. Most top level BJJ guys don't even go for TDs. They rely on sweeps and clinch work.

It just seems like you have a vendetta against Maia or BJJ and are trying to argue a point that no one is contesting. Not sure why.

TL;DR wall of excuse

Maia is 1 for 67 in TD attempts against All Americans. Some of these All-Americans have close to 50% TDD, meaning they get taken down routinely, including by Europeans with minimal wrestling. You fail a couple of times, sure, chalk it up to bad circumstances. You fail 66 out of 67 times, you suck, end of story.

So you can try to find as many excuses as you can and come up with as many headcanon interpretations to "justify" overwhelming statistical evidence, that's your prerogative. I'm not going to bother reading walls of delusion, because delusion will not make the 1 TD out of 67 attempts fact go away. Maia was never close to being a BJJ guy with one of the best wrestling.

 

[LouisBolanos]

You're blindly hating on the guy, maia is a great takedown artist and is able to take most fighters down but he has limited striking. Even great wrestlers like Cormier, Khabib and gsp use striking to set up their takedowns.

Luke Barnatt took down Mark Munoz 1/2 times. Maia is 0 for 7 against Munoz who has a TDD of 57%, and 1 for 67 against All-Americans.

You call that blind hate? You're the one who's blindly nuthugging in the face of overwhelming statistics.

 

[Liverkick-king56]

Luke Barnatt took down Mark Munoz 1/2 times. Maia is 0 for 7 against Munoz who has a TDD of 57%, and 1 for 67 against All-Americans.

You call that blind hate? You're the one who's blindly nuthugging in the face of overwhelming statistics.

luke barnatt is a striker? like i said striking sets up takedowns. plus munoz was clearly out of his prime in that fight.

 

[fractal]

TL;DR wall of excuse

Maia is 1 for 67 in TD attempts against All Americans. Some of these All-Americans have close to 50% TDD, meaning they get taken down routinely, including by Europeans with minimal wrestling. You fail a couple of times, sure, chalk it up to bad circumstances. You fail 66 out of 67 times, you suck, end of story.

So you can try to find as many excuses as you can and come up with as many headcanon interpretations to "justify" overwhelming statistical evidence, that's your prerogative. I'm not going to bother reading walls of delusion, because delusion will not make the 1 TD out of 67 attempts fact go away. Maia was never close to being a BJJ guy with one of the best wrestling.

That's too long for you? Now I understand why you rely on fightmetric rather than the actual fight.

Here's a stat for your collection: 0/2 < 2/22.

 

[Liverkick-king56]

rory macdonald stuffed the shit out of jake ellenburger and tyrone woodley but got takedown by Maia. obviously there's better wrestlers than maia but to discredit his wrestling game as not top level is absurd.

 

[LouisBolanos]

luke barnatt is a striker? like i said striking sets up takedowns. plus munoz was clearly out of his prime in that fight.

Luke Barnatt is European with minimal wrestling. By your dumb logic, strikers would all be better wrestlers than grapplers, because they can "use striking to setup takedowns". This is a laughable excuse. 1 success out of 67 has nothing to do with circumstances or luck, it means Maia's wrestling is unequivocally shit.

That's too long for you? Now I understand why you rely on fightmetric rather than the actual fight.

I care about objective facts, not your delusion and headcanon.

And Fightmetric stats are compiled based on actual fights, your delusion isn't.

 

[Pitier of Fools]

TS, how did you not include this one???

 

[fractal]

I care about objective facts, not your delusion and headcanon.
And Fightmetric stats are compiled based on actual fights, your delusion isn't.

Tyron's TD% against Rory was 0. And Maia's was 9.09. That makes Maia an infinitely better wrestler, or at least a TD artist than Tyron. Is this stat objective?

 

[LouisBolanos]

Tyron's TD% against Rory was 0. And Maia's was 9.09. That makes Maia an infinitely better wrestler, or at least a TD artist than Tyron. Is this stat objective?

0 of 2 TD attempts vs. 1 of 67 TD attempts. Of course they're the same thing.

Stay delusional.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

A wrestler defends TDs from everyone. Rockhold (a BJJ guy) took down Weidman twice out of 4 attempts. Mark Munoz has 57% TDD, basically he gets taken down 1 out of 2 attempts. Even Luke Barnatt took his ass down.

There's no excuse or explanation for 1 out of 67 other than he's just terrible.

Unless you don't consider your opponents striking to be a threat.
Rockhold's striking make his takedowns more effective.
Just like GSP's takedowns make his striking more effective.
Maia is a BJJ guy, he didn't have the takedowns and he didn't have the striking. All you had to do to defeat Maia was keep it standing, something elite wrestlers have been perfecting most of their lives. He's 25-9, so obviously most people couldn't do that.

Maia had to improve his takedowns to be effective and he did.

Also, the Munoz, a NCAA D1 National Champion..., and Weidman fights were contested at 185.
Colby, Tyron, and Usman were contested in the last year, all on short notice, and all after Maia turned 40 (colby 30, usman 31, woodley 36).

 

[fractal]

0 of 2 TD attempts vs. 1 of 67 TD attempts. Of course they're the same thing.

Stay delusional.

Took you 10 minutes to come up with that?
Oh and, 0% < 9.09%. Or did you not make it past grade 6 math?

Anyway bud, I'm gonna crash now. You have about 10 hours to come up with something better, so take your time. Although it looks like you're stuck in a loop here.

 

[fractal]

Unless you don't consider your opponents striking to be a threat.
Rockhold's striking make his takedowns more effective.
Just like GSP's takedowns make his striking more effective.
Maia is a BJJ guy, he didn't have the takedowns and he didn't have the striking. All you had to do to defeat Maia was keep it standing, something elite wrestlers have been perfecting most of their lives. He's 25-9, so obviously most people couldn't do that.

Maia had to improve his takedowns to be effective and he did.

Also, the Munoz, a NCAA D1 National Champion..., and Weidman fights were contested at 185.
Colby, Tyron, and Usman were contested in the last year, all on short notice, and all after Maia turned 40 (colby 30, usman 31, woodley 36).

Save it man. This guy is either an idiot or a troll. I'll go with the former given that he's a laughing stock in this thread now.

 

[fractal]

rory macdonald stuffed the shit out of jake ellenburger and tyrone woodley but got takedown by Maia. obviously there's better wrestlers than maia but to discredit his wrestling game as not top level is absurd.

See how he conveniently ignored this post.

 

[Sapp]

Took you 10 minutes to come up with that?
Oh and, 0% < 9.09%. Or did you not make it past grade 6 math?

Anyway bud, I'm gonna crash now. You have about 10 hours to come up with something better, so take your time. Although it looks like you're stuck in a loop here.

1/67 is 1.4%, not 9.09%., and given the sample sizes the 0/2 is not statistically significant.

 

[K-Town Punk]

After three pages of discussion, the one thing that stands out - using logic on this LouisBolanos guy when it comes to Demian Maia is absolutely futile, to a point where it's not even funny anymore.
Maia is one of the all time greats in MMA and a BJJ legend. Fact.

 

[machidafan99]

eh, he should have dedicated his life to wrestling upon starting a MMA career.