Machida's Resume vs. Shogun's Resume

[IloveTHIS]

LOL wat

Its true. Prime Shogun wins a fight to the death vs any human on Earth via soccer kicks to the face.

 

[RJ43]

It's a very tough comparison. MMA math has to go out the window and many things are murky, even the first fight between the two.

Overall I think Shogun is barely ahead at this point. His run prior to his injuries in 2005 was epic, and he has wins over Machida, Liddell and Forrest to keep him relevant post-injury.

Machida has had a tougher schedule since 2006, but his loss to Rampage (though I believe Machida won) and Shogun really hurt him in this particular comparison.

I think right now Shogun has the slight edge, but probably in a year's time Machida will have another top 10 and top 5 win under his belt to give him the slight edge.

 

[Idonotbelieveit]

Yep, it was impressive how he ran through Arona after having a tough fight with Overeem. Final Conflict 2005 is without a doubt my favorite MMA event of all time.

yeah definitely one of the best.. shogun was scary good!

 

[icex48x]

Shogun's win over Overeem shouldn't mean much

Overeem wasn't special until he went to HW

Just because you didn't know who Reem was until he was a HW doesn't mean he was irrelevant.

 

[JsinLegacy]

To much to take into account vs where opponents were ranked at the time really...rankings are always skewed some ...

you have to also consider level of competition at the time... Pride Rampage was more dangerous than UFC Rampage.. etc .. etc..

however,

Personally I will always feel that Shogun is above Machida at any point in time..

 

[ApexChin**]

Fun fact: Shogun has two wins over Machida.

Fun Facts: You have no clue what youre talking about and are a liar.

 

[EarnPow**]

#1 Jones

#2 Chuck & Wandy (tie)

#4 Machida, Shogun, Evans, Rampage, Hendo (tie)

#9....Randy?!? who knows.

Hendo has the most accolades across weight classes and Shogun had possibly the best 4 month run in the history of the sport. Evans, Machida and Rampage are all in there too.

wait a minute, what was the topic?

Please tell me how Chuck and Wanderlei both are higher than Shogun.

Tell me who they beat was more impressive than Shogun's wins.

PS: Shogun has the better resume than Machida.

 

[trane]

Warning: FRAT

The complete breakdown:

Forrest was ranked higher then Bader, Thiago Silva, and Sokodjou when Shogun beat him. Liddell was also ranked higher then them as well.

Now using TC's own logic against him, thus destroying any argument he has attempted to make on this thread:

Shogun win: Rampage>Henderson

Shogun win: Nog>Evans

Shogun win: Liddell>Ortiz and Couture

Shogun win: Rampage>Machida himself

Shogun win: Forrest>Franklin

Shogun win: Nog>Henderson

Shogun win: Arona>Henderson

So Shogun defeated Forrest who was ranked higher then Bader, Thiago Silva, and Sokodjou, these are some of Machida's top wins compared according to TC yet none of them were as relevant as poor ole' Forrest.

Shogun beat Rampage and Nogueira, who both defeated Henderson, Nog actually destroying him.

Shogun beat Nog, who beat Evans. Another one of Machida's top wins.

Shogun beat Liddell who was ranked in the top 5, who beat Ortiz and Couture convicingly on numerous occasions, these are other top wins of Machida according to TC.

Forrest defeated Franklin, another person TC was convinced was a signature win.

Shogun has more wins over ranked opponents. He defeated Machida, Rampage, Liddell, Nog, Griffin, Arona, and Alistair twice, every single of them ranked.

Machida probably has half of that in terms of wins over ranked opposition.

If you look at rankings and where they were ranked, which is what was attempted by the TC(who was using misinformation and false statistics), it's clearly in Shogun's favor by a very large margin, and not even close at that.

I'm not sure what kind of logic TC has been going by, but going with logic that makes any sort of sense, it's a huge edge on Rua's favor. If you used skewed statistics and misinformation, you can attempt to make anything look like it's in your favor. Going by fair and non-biased logic, it's unquestionably in Rua's favor by a very large margin.

 

[76Knockout]

Sobral

Both had already fought that night and Shogun was very green as a fighter (5th fight, 21 years old).

Coleman

Freak accident early in the fight. Coleman was trying to take him down but he wasn't trying to break his hand. Shogun avenged this loss.

Griffin

Injured his knee during training camp which required surgery after the fight. This loss was also avenged.

Machida

Widely considered to be one of the biggest robberies in MMA history. Avenged.

Jones

One of the worst beatdowns ever, Jones was on another level, nothing to add here.

Henderson

Majority of fans and media scored this fight as a draw.

Gustafsson

Competetive fight with a young up-and-coming fighter that went to a decision.



TL;DR Shogun's record looks worse on paper than it actually is.

Don't be THAT Shogun fan. He agreed to fight, fought and lost. Don't discredit the guys that beat him. No shame in losing a fight once and awhile. All Elite fighters/legends lose fights.

 

[UpaLoompa]

Shogun certainly has had some inconsistencies but his record is currently a bit better. That may change as Machida is likely to be able to maintain a longer career. Must be the piss drinking.

Who would you rather watch though? Shogun in 2005 or Machida ever?

 

[Ozymandias]

what's the point of this? Shogun beat Machida twice (yes you read that right.)

 

[gspdiaz209]

Machida is great. He brought us the "Shadface"

 

[EarnPow**]

Fun Facts: You have no clue what youre talking about and are a liar.

You're the one who has no idea what you're talking about.

Actually, you act like you think Machida won, yet you know that he really didn't.

You're just a Machida fan, and probably a Shogun hater, so you just say that Machida won.

 

[Elmocraven**]

Warning: FRAT

The complete breakdown:

Forrest was ranked higher then Bader, Thiago Silva, and Sokodjou when Shogun beat him. Liddell was also ranked higher then them as well.

Do you ever get tired of being wrong all the time?

Again: The source I have shows Bader was ranked #6. Your source says #9, while my other source Bloody Elbow says #8. So Bader was ranked in the general area of 6-9. I'm sure Forrest's ranking was similar if you branched out to other sites.

#2 - Sokoudjou was ranked #4, so that's a flat out lie.

 

[manji]

You're the one who has no idea what you're talking about.

Actually, you act like you think Machida won, yet you know that he really didn't.

You're just a Machida fan, and probably a Shogun hater, so you just say that Machida won.

Either that or he hasn't actually sat through and watched the whole fight from beginning to end, with or without the volume turned up.

 

[PRIDEoftheUFC**]

Please tell me how Chuck and Wanderlei both are higher than Shogun.

Tell me who they beat was more impressive than Shogun's wins.

PS: Shogun has the better resume than Machida.

Shogun is probably my favorite fighter but the fact that Chuck and Wand had long title reigns and were/are MMA superstars counts for something in my book. Shogun's 2005 GP run was probably the most impressive year in MMA history up until Jones 2011, but Chuck and Wand both have great resumes as well. An argument could be made for any of them.

 

[Thorst13]

MMath to the rescue, just great! Shogun beat his ass (twice)!

 

[MiroHa]

Don't be THAT Shogun fan. He agreed to fight, fought and lost. Don't discredit the guys that beat him. No shame in losing a fight once and awhile. All Elite fighters/legends lose fights.

I'm not saying that none of those losses were legit, especially not the first Griffin fight. Griffin was the better man that night as were Babalu, Jones and Gustafsson. I tried to make a point about there being more to those losses than just the red color on the Wiki page.

 

[Solidseifer]

Shoguns resume looks better. Shogun shouldn't even be on Machida's.

If Shogun put on his running shoes more often, his record may be a little better too.

 

[kodiijones]

Shogun, easily