Lyoto Machida's weight class during prime

[Espresso]

I was trying to find information on what exactly made Machida go up from MW to LHW and i could really find anything.

From what i remember, he was basically forced out of MW because Anderson Silva was his training partner, and 'THAT' guy running the division.

I explicitly remember both of them saying they would never fight eachother.

So my question to Sherdoggers,

1- Was Machida forced out of middle weight because Silva was there?

2- Would have Machida had a more succesful career if he were to stay at MW? (Assuming Anderson Silva never existed!!)

Bonus question:
3- If Silva and Machida fought around 2008-09, when they both held titles, who wouldve won if they met at MW and LHW?

In 2008-09, was when Silva welcomed Forrest Griffin to the Matrix and went to war with Chael Sonnen... while Machida handed Rashad Evans his first L and went to war with Shogun.

I remember being younger and daydreaming about a Spider vs Dragon fight! Soon i found out they said they would never fight and my dream was crushed.

 

[moreorless87]

DId Machida ever fight at MW before his drop? he actually fought as high as HW earlier in his career and fought at LHW on that lone WFA show.

I'd agree though the drop might have happened sooner if Anderson wasn't around. Both were underr the same management with Blackhouse as indeed was Lil Nog who mysteriously didn't end up in the UFC for years when Lyoto was champ or in title contention. Was Filho with Blackhouse management? him fighting in the WEC was an odd one given his status at the time, maybe again them trying to avoid comp for Anderson?

 

[Kung Fu bb]

Lyoto was heavier, he used to fight at 205 or more. He fought Rich Franklin in 2003 , at 215 pounds and KOed him. Lyoto even fought Bj Penn at a catch weight, where he came in with over 230 pounds and Penn at 190.

 

[Draxton]

It is because all that DHEA made him so swole, he couldn’t hit 185 anymore. Duh.

 

[Espresso]

Does he starting off at LHW have anything to do with Silva?
Seeing him make weight at MW at this stage of his career, give me no doubts he couldve done it in the past, and probably be more dominant as he can more easily exercise his evasive fighting style given his reach advantage at MW, specially back in the days.

 

[Kung Fu bb]

Does he starting off at LHW have anything to do with Silva?
Seeing him make weight at MW at this stage of his career, give me no doubts he couldve done it in the past, and probably be more dominant as he can more easily exercise his evasive fighting style given his reach advantage at MW, specially back in the days.

No, the fact Silva reigned at MW has nothing to do with Lyoto fighting at LHW. They talked about their friendship and training together when people asked about a possible fight between them, but that´s all.
And Lyoto became ufc LHW champ undefeated, I think he did pretty amazing back in the day. But he ran into one of the most vicious LHW of all time, Shogun who figured him out. And then all of a sudden he got "figured out" by other fighters and his style just wasn´t a puzzle anymore. And eventually became a small LHW, that´s why I think he decided to make the drop, because he saw he was getting undersized if compared to the "new" guys like Jones, Davis, Gustafsson, etc.

 

[Fluffernutter]

Prime

 

[mkt]

Yep. Head-to-head and prime vs. prime, Anderson vs. Machida would be a tough fight to call, but with no Silva, Lyoto would've owned the division during the same period that Anderson did. He beat Rich Franklin already, and I see him beating most everyone Silva beat (Marquardt, Okami, Leites, etc.) easily. TRT Belfort would've been his biggest challenge and question mark. Sonnen might be somewhat tough, but Lyoto's TDD was really good when he was younger, and he used to devour wrestlers outside of Jon Jones (think Tito, Bader, Rashad, Couture, etc). I think Weidman would've eventually dethroned him, but he was pretty competitive with Weidman even when he was older.

 

[mkt]

No, the fact Silva reigned at MW has nothing to do with Lyoto fighting at LHW. They talked about their friendship and training together when people asked about a possible fight between them, but that´s all.

Which is why he never went down to MW to challenge Andy.

 

[Clear Winner]

I have no idea who would've won that fight if it happened when they were both in their primes, but it would have been one hell of a spectacle.

Glad we got to see Shogun vs Machida though. That whole Karate Vs Muay Thai situation had my casual friends excited.

 

[Kung Fu bb]

Which is why he never went down to MW to challenge Andy.

No champions were going up and down to challenge each other at the time, the org just wasn´t willing to pay their champs enough to make their risk worth. So there´s basically not even a single evidence that suggests the ufc would even promote the fight or that Lyoto wouldn´t have accepted it. What did you expect him to say "Yeah I´ll fight Anderson my friend and training partner if they ever make the proposal?" Not likely, right? The obvious answer if the fight was never in discussion was "I´m happy to be champion in my division and we´re good friends and training partners" . A typical respectful answer you´d expected from a guy like Lyoto.

 

[orca]

Lol at mw div back then. Theres no doubt in my mind that he would rule that division if there was no anderson

 

[Franklin U.]

Actually , machida spent lion share of career at 205 so t.s not coming across well......and early in his career, he was actually a bit chunky.If he can go back in time ,he'd start his career with the goal of getting to 185 asap.....and absolutely ace his on his back tie ups/defense.

 

[mkt]

No champions were going up and down to challenge each other at the time, the org just wasn´t willing to pay their champs enough to make their risk worth. So there´s basically not even a single evidence that suggests the ufc would even promote the fight or that Lyoto wouldn´t have accepted it. What did you expect him to say "Yeah I´ll fight Anderson my friend and training partner if they ever make the proposal?" Not likely, right? The obvious answer if the fight was never in discussion was "I´m happy to be champion in my division and we´re good friends and training partners" . A typical respectful answer you´d expected from a guy like Lyoto.

Not sure what you're debating. I'm answering the TS' second question: "2- Would have Machida had a more succesful career if he were to stay at MW? (Assuming Anderson Silva never existed!!)"

His first question ("Was Machida forced out of middle weight because Silva was there?") is impossible to answer since none of us were around to hear conversations between Machida and the UFC. I'm pretty sure it was just a gentleman's agreement between Silva and him. They were close back then, training with each other and preparing each other for certain opponents. But what actually happened is all speculation.

 

[mkt]

Glad we got to see Shogun vs Machida though. That whole Karate Vs Muay Thai situation had my casual friends excited.

And to be fair, Shogun really came in prepared for Machida. He brought in a Shotokan guy to train with, and was the most technical Shogun ever. I didn't expect that and I'm sure Machida didn't either. Shogun usually came into fights without much of a gameplan, reverting back to Chute Box brawling (Forrest, Gustaffson, Hendo, etc. fights).

 

[mkt]

DId Machida ever fight at MW before his drop?

I don't think so, but I remember him being around 202 at some LHW weigh-ins...he made LHW super easily and could've fought at MW much earlier.

 

[Terpizzle]

If you're not willing to fight everybody, you don't deserve the strap.

 

[jonathan274]

I was trying to find information on what exactly made Machida go up from MW to LHW and i could really find anything.

From what i remember, he was basically forced out of MW because Anderson Silva was his training partner, and 'THAT' guy running the division.

I explicitly remember both of them saying they would never fight eachother.

So my question to Sherdoggers,

1- Was Machida forced out of middle weight because Silva was there?

2- Would have Machida had a more succesful career if he were to stay at MW? (Assuming Anderson Silva never existed!!)

Bonus question:
3- If Silva and Machida fought around 2008-09, when they both held titles, who wouldve won if they met at MW and LHW?

In 2008-09, was when Silva welcomed Forrest Griffin to the Matrix and went to war with Chael Sonnen... while Machida handed Rashad Evans his first L and went to war with Shogun.

I remember being younger and daydreaming about a Spider vs Dragon fight! Soon i found out they said they would never fight and my dream was crushed.

1. no
2. no, lhw looked very comfortable to him. he also fought at hw at one point
3. anderson*

i wonder if there is sparring footage of them somewhere because you know they had to have - would be cool to even watch a friendly sesh

 

[theTKDguy]

Big fan of lyoto, it think it would've gone to a decision, likely uneventful fight.

 

[FinalConflict2005]

199lbs was optimal kill weight for him. Him weighing under the 205 limit helped him.