Loyality and Respect

ThePainFactory

ThePainFactory

I train Ninjas
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This whole thing is ridiculous and out of prospective

I believe everyone has a right to learn to defend themselves. If people aren't taught to defend themselves we are raising victims. Some people just dont have the money to be able to pay for this.

This whole year we have offered free classes to those who couldn't afford membership. I never have felt right about charging.

Loyality?? The only people you can expect loyalty from is your friends. There is this attitude that you have to charge your friends because your enemys won't buy from you.

Well, I've never felt right about charging my friends for this. If you are charging your friends and they are truly your friends than you probably don't fell great about it either.

A lot of this is only about pushing a brand and making it profitable so people can make a living doing what they love. I get that but don't be a hypocrit and claim anyone owes your band loyality.

If you have to play the loyality card on your people you have a problem.
 
It is like when a friend gives me a ride to a place he isn't going, like say hundreds of miles out of the way, and the cheap fucker wants me to buy the gas. Fuck that.
 
Everyone is out there selling their services and products.

There is this kickboxing gym that charges extra for a special sparring class to learn how to fight!!!!

Can you imagine me telling my Bjj customers that they have pay another $100 to attend a specialised sparring class so they can learn how to compete?

Is it not my role to offer such service already?

Mad world?
 
ThePainFactory said:
This whole thing is ridiculous and out of prospective

I believe everyone has a right to learn to defend themselves. If people aren't taught to defend themselves we are raising victims. Some people just dont have the money to be able to pay for this.

This whole year we have offered free classes to those who couldn't afford membership. I never have felt right about charging.

Loyality?? The only people you can expect loyalty from is your friends. There is this attitude that you have to charge your friends because your enemys won't buy from you.

Well, I've never felt right about charging my friends for this. If you are charging your friends and they are truly your friends than you probably don't fell great about it either.

A lot of this is only about pushing a brand and making it profitable so people can make a living doing what they love. I get that but don't be a hypocrit and claim anyone owes your band loyality.

If you have to play the loyality card on your people you have a problem.
Click to expand...


I think most folks here would agree with you; loyalty is one of the most important virtues there are, but its inappropriate to talk about loyalty in the context of business transactions. And lets make it clear, most martial arts instruction today is a business, who's service is teaching martial arts.
 
Last edited:
rmongler said:
I think most folks here would agree with you; loyalty is one of the most important virtues there are, but its inappropriate to talk about loyalty in the context of business transactions. And lets make it clear, most martial arts instruction today is a business, who's service is teaching martial arts.
Click to expand...

I agree you have a buisness transaction as an instructor. Sometimes that becomes a friendship and with most caring instructors it does. I want my friends, the people I feel loyality to and from to be able to learn and train anywhere without restraint from me. I feel that is how you are a friend in return. You don't burden them with your petty ego issues.

That being said if you consider the person to be more than a student, to be a friend, you should let it be known you are OK with them training at another place if that's what they feel they need. You should let them know that it won't change the friendship you have.

This isn't an easy thing to do and honestly this is something I've only had to deal with a couple times.
 
lechien said:
Everyone is out there selling their services and products.

There is this kickboxing gym that charges extra for a special sparring class to learn how to fight!!!!

Can you imagine me telling my Bjj customers that they have pay another $100 to attend a specialised sparring class so they can learn how to compete?

Is it not my role to offer such service already?

Mad world?
Click to expand...

Totally agree!!

I've been seeing a lot more people who don't care at all about learning to defend themselves. "I carry a gun for that" is what one of them told me. They just want tonhit mits and get a workout.

I agree a gun trumps everything else but I don't want that to be my only option. I feel like it is part of my responsibility to make sure it isn't theirs either.
 
My friend is my account, when he does my taxes I pay him the normal rate. Is he supposed to work for free because he is my friend?
 
Would he stop being your friend if you switched accountants?
 
From a student perspective I wouldn't feel right not paying my instructor. I know he has to pay rent for the gym and also put food on his table.

If you can't pay, you should take a break from training until you can afford it again. Obviously it would be a bit different if your an upper belt such as purple or brown, who can help by teaching some classes temporary or permanent in terms of getting a discounted tuition.

I think loyalty means more along the lines of not switching gyms, and paying the new gym tuition versus leaving your old gym for trivial reasons.
 
If you are a good instructor you should be confident in what you are doing. You should not be concerned about your students going to visit another school. If what you are teaching them works and they like the environment they will come back. If not then the student will switch schools.

However, at the end of the day if the student is paying, they are a customer. As a customer I have the right to spend my money where I please. I don't have to pay my friends to spend time with me (usually) and I think this is something that needs to be remembered. Unless I am getting completely free instruction then I don't think anything is owed to the teacher. Me paying my bill literally means we're even.
 
I really hate the whole cult mentality of martial arts in general. When I was a young fighter I had the loyalty guilt trip laid on me by my coach, even when I wanted to do things like cross train in areas that he was lacking in. Which looking back now is just absurd that I actually heeded his words, and absurd that he thought others would think less of his abilities if they trained elsewhere and realized that he didn't know everything.

It's really sad that there are so many amazing coaches that do this kind of shit. He was an incredible coach and mentor, and I'd probably still be training under him today if I wasn't discouraged from cross training in areas that he had less knowledge in.

I'm actually shocked that at this point in martial arts history, and the internet. That there are so many coaches that still like to pretend they are the end all be all of martial prowess, and even more shocking that there are still so many that still try to downplay or outright discredit the effectiveness of the various arts. I've seen boxing, muay thai, tkd, and jiujitsu coaches all do this.
 
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