Low Recruit Discipline Prompts Army to Redesign Basic Training

[tonni]

That's true, but it's what I believe and it's what I've seen in kids today.

Uhm, kids "today" have to sit still for 8 hours a day, just like they did before the "SJW's" took over. I don't agree with that method at all, but to blame it on women is completely ridiculous.

 

[KnightTemplar]

Let the fatties in and give them extra time to lose the weight before any meaningful front line deployment.

Also: bring back national service

National Service only works in a time of national emergency. It's expensive; a lot of civilians in the UK want to see NS brought back, only for it to be pointed out by the military that they can barely afford the volunteer army we have right now. NS soldiers, marines etc will still have to be paid, fed and equipped. It's not a free resource.

Also, can you imagine the problems motivating hundreds of thousands of people who had no intention of joing the military and deeply resent being forced to serve? You'd end up with a huge army, but the bulk would be made up of people who would do the bare minimum to prevent being punished.

National Service works in scenarios like WWII, when your country faces a threat to it's very existance. It didn't work in Vietnam, because no one really cared what a bunch of little Asian people did to each other thousands of miles away from America.

 

[Madmick]

I'm not saying none of your concerns are valid, but keep in mind "Kids Today..." has been around forever.

http://mentalfloss.com/article/52209/15-historical-complaints-about-young-people-ruining-everything

France, 1771:
"Whither are the manly vigor and athletic appearance of our forefathers flown? Can these be their legitimate heirs? Surely, no; a race of effeminate, self-admiring, emaciated fribbles can never have descended in a direct line from the heroes of Potiers and Agincourt..."

USA, 1904
"Never has youth been exposed to such dangers of both perversion and arrest as in our own land and day. Increasing urban life with its temptations, prematurities, sedentary occupations, and passive stimuli just when an active life is most needed, early emancipation and a lessening sense for both duty and discipline, the haste to know and do all befitting man's estate before its time, the mad rush for sudden wealth and the reckless fashions set by its gilded youth--all these lack some of the regulatives they still have in older lands with more conservative conditions."

Different Centuries, Same Shit.

Except that he's not voicing the curmudgeonly forecast of the breakdown of all men, and the end of days, this lingering ancient Greek attitude of the degeneration of the species with each subsequent generation, but simply the breakdown of American military might and general excellence.

 

[VivaRevolution]

Haha, nah, I was with 2nd Division so we never saw any WM's unless we went to the French Creek gym. My group of buddies and I were pretty aggressive with the booze so we spent our free time at the barracks getting hammered.

That sounds very homo-erotic.

Fucking fruity Rudy's.

Real shit though, do Marines think Generation Kill, is the best modern media representation of real Marines?

Jarhead, or something else?

 

[VivaRevolution]

BTW, anyone ever think it might be smart to teach 18 year olds about healthy eating, and serve healthy foods in the mess hall, to deal with people being overweight in the military?

I struggled with my weight when I was in. It was ignorance of how to eat to lose weight that was the problem. Well that and beer has a shit tonne of calories if you drink a case.

 

[SaiWa]

This is where I feel like males and females shouldn't necessarily spend all day together in the same classroom. Males have more energy and need to expend that energy through physical endeavors, and when they're all put on Ritalin so they'll sit down and shut up you've got a serious issue. I'm not saying it's some kind of underhanded thing with female teachers, but females tend to be much more reserved and placid when compared to males. Most kids don't see a male teacher until they hit middle school and by that time they've had no choice but to be meek and passive. Lots of families have two working parents so boys generally aren't doing anything energetic in the evening time either. Add into this the "helicopter parents" who wont' let their kids go outside and do anything because they're terrified of abductions, and you've got a perfect storm for the pacification of male youths in this country.

It's not much of a wonder why males have no confidence because they've never had the opportunity to showcase their physical prowess or do anything aggressive. A great case in point (anecdotes don't mean shit, I agree) is my nephew... kid was kept inside all the time and had only female teachers. I went home to go visit and my nephew is 10 years old and can't ride a bike. I blew a gasket and bought him a bike... a few days later I check back in and he's got training wheels on it, so none of the kids around the neighborhood will allow him to ride with them. Just unreal and my brother couldn't give a shit either way. So my nephew sits inside all day, no friends, and plays video games. I tried getting him into BJJ or even TMA but his parents were too "busy" to give a shit.

I can go on and on but there's a whole multitude of reasons kids are physically inept these days and I believe I've given my opinions on the matter.

Your nephew is this way because of his parents. If they do not make time for him then there's a likelihood he simply doesn't develop more physical prowess or abilities.

But it has nothing to do with him being a boy or girl.

I just came back from visiting my extended family in Australia and my cousin has 3 daughters and they all do ballet, swimming, and a host of other hobbies. Both parents work but make time to support their daughters. The youngest daughter is around 4 and half and is tireless. Runs around forever and is quite daring in playgrounds (monkey bars, rock climbIng, etc...). These girls are smart (eldest just got accepted to a school that's for the very best) and extremely active. One of them was crying to her father cause she had to give up one of her ballet team (she's in 3 of them) for extra class tutoring (even though she gets top grades).

The idea that males have more energy is asinine. Almost all children (boy or girl) have boundless amount of energies but if they are sheltered and not nutrtured towards an active lifestyle then they may become lazy pieces of shit (or less active).

 

[usmctanker242]

That sounds very homo-erotic.

Fucking fruity Rudy's.

Real shit though, do Marines think Generation Kill, is the best modern media representation of real Marines?

Jarhead, or something else?

No idea, never seen either of those movies. As a tanker we were generally fans of Kelly's Heros, The Beast, and everybody loved them some Full Metal Jacket.

 

[VivaRevolution]

No idea, never seen either of those movies. As a tanker we were generally fans of Kelly's Heros, The Beast, and everybody loved them some Full Metal Jacket.

If you have HBO, watch Generation Kill. I think you will enjoy it. It is only 1 season, 7 episodes.

 

[usmctanker242]

Your nephew is this way because of his parents. If they do not make time for him then there's a likelihood he simply doesn't develop more physical prowess or abilities.

But it has nothing to do with him being a boy or girl.

I just came back from visiting my extended family in Australia and my cousin has 3 daughters and they all do ballet, swimming, and a host of other hobbies. Both parents work but make time to support their daughters. The youngest daughter is around 4 and half and is tireless. Runs around forever and is quite daring in playgrounds (monkey bars, rock climbIng, etc...). These girls are smart (eldest just got accepted to a school that's for the very best) and extremely active. One of them was crying to her father cause she had to give up one of her ballet team (she's in 3 of them) for extra class tutoring (even though she gets top grades).

The idea that males have more energy is asinine. Almost all children (boy or girl) have boundless amount of energies but if they are sheltered and not nutrtured towards an active lifestyle then they may become lazy pieces of shit (or less active).

My nephew is the way he is for a multitude of reasons relating to both his home life and his school life. It's also factual that males have a more aggressive metabolism so they have more energy. Did you stay awake during your biology courses? ; )

 

[SaiWa]

My nephew is the way he is for a multitude of reasons relating to both his home life and his school life. It's also factual that males have a more aggressive metabolism so they have more energy. Did you stay awake during your biology courses? ; )

It matters little in the grande scheme of things. Any child will lead an active lifestyle if you rear them towards it. A girl can be just as active if not more active than a boy. It's how you want to raise them.

I will agree with you that school life in the US needs an adjustment. I personally believe in allowing teachers the use of corporal punishment and school uniforms.

 

[Prefect]

Don't forget veteran's preference on jobs when you leave the military.

My brother left the military with enough money in his middle 20s to buy a house when he got out, straight up cash. He has used the VA a few times and would have used the GI bill if he didn't track into another field. He didn't reenlist due to not wanting to be deployed again.

All in all it isn't a bad deal if you can handle living abroad and or a few leds freedoms. There are private sector jobs that pay well too. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend a trade like plumbing and being an electrician to anyone who can't afford college, is leery of the cost, or maybe is unsure of what they want to do. The military is similar in that it is a safe play that doesnt end with you being some millionare hot shot but you will always have food on the table and a decent retirement.

 

[Stoic1]

My brother left the military with enough money in his middle 20s to buy a house when he got out, straight up cash. He has used the VA a few times and would have used the GI bill if he didn't track into another field. He didn't reenlist due to not wanting to be deployed again.

All in all it isn't a bad deal if you can handle living abroad and or a few leds freedoms. There are private sector jobs that pay well too. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend a trade like plumbing and being an electrician to anyone who can't afford college, is leery of the cost, or maybe is unsure of what they want to do. The military is similar in that it is a safe play that doesnt end with you being some millionare hot shot but you will always have food on the table and a decent retirement.

Dat deployment muneys~ Most soldiers come back with $20k+

I agree with trades. That is where I will steer my son. He will have my GI Bill to go anywhere he wants though. Be an electrician and work in solar energy or something. I cannot in good conscience recommend Universities these days and it will be worse in 17 years when he goes. It would be great if he could go to MIT or something but he might just as easily end up at Berkeley or Evergreen. Personally, I hope for something different for my kid. I was born into the warrior caste - great grandfathers, grandfathers, father, etc have all been to war.

The myth that the military is a safe play is very subjective. I mean considering the sheer amount of death and injuries we have as a profession it kinda sucks. But the MONEY is great. There aren't many professions with pensions anymore and that calculates outs to some incredible $$$. In my case, I put 10% of my base pay in the TSP (non-matched 401k), as well as a ROTH IRA, and my own investment brokerage account. My point is you can leave the military a millionaire easily if you save and invest wisely. I already have a million dollars in assets with 8 more years until retirement. Then the pension kicks in? Oh - house on the beach here I come.

Oh yeah I should also mention that is not typical for military retirement though. Most will give half their retirement away in their 1st or 2nd divorce. Any savings they could have had was consumed up in beer as a lower enlisted and quality spirits as they progress. Deployment money is usually pissed away on a new Mustang just months after return. And nobody thinks of saving in their 20's. The dream that their "pension" will take care of them usually leads them to working a second job at range control or TASC as a GS7 or contractor well into their 60's. At that point it's all you've ever known. So might as well head down to the VFW with your OEF/OIF hat and talk about that time when...

 

[Lord Coke]

He's gotcha, here, @alanb.

You belong to the problem generation: January 1st, 1981-

Touche Sir

 

[Lord Coke]

While I don't disagree with needing more PE, in the previous decade or 2 we decided that we needed more AP and stem classes to keep up with the Asians.

Do you think we lost Nam because Charlie was in the jungle studying calc?

 

[AFCrookie]

The SNCOs that managed to stay unmarried and rack up deployments always had the sickest houses/cars/bikes. That appears to be the way to go.

 

[Mark Cutting]

If you have HBO, watch Generation Kill. I think you will enjoy it. It is only 1 season, 7 episodes.

Its usually the dialog that's overdone. Jarhead had the fuck fuck games, at least. That's real.

 

[MacDuffle]

Well yikes, friend.

I was advocating none of the things you've mentioned in the above diatribe.


I'm 26 years old, for some reference. I grew up in the 90s/2000s with multiculturalism, tolerance and a liberal arts education. I wanna live in a country where people can be gay, or watch WWE and not be criminally punished. I served overseas with some ferocious warriors who happened to be gay. I don't want military culture to be civilian culture. What I was attempting to point out, is that civilian culture has, of late, bled INTO military culture, in a manner that has tangibly reduced our fighting force's readiness.

I'm not fetishizing Ancient Sparta, nor am I really proposing any kind of solution to the aforementioned problem.

Keeping military standards separate from civilian standards is a very important distinction in freedom of expression

If you don't think certain civ recruits are up to standard either train them harder or don't train them at all, set the standards for combat-readiness in your ranks just like special forces and elite branches do, they don't hug it out with people who can't keep calm underwater during BUD/S training they drop them from the course

The problem is when you start to blend standards for your military with who gets to live in your civ population; when the military impose their ideals on the population at large you get military dictatorships and authoritarianism and killing of homosexuals and exiling political opponents and all that fun terrible shit

I'm not aiming those extreme parallels at any one poster on this site, I'm saying that backsliding away from modern freedoms and reforms is exactly where our military complaints about "pussification" and a desire for combat readiness in your civilians gets your dumb ass if you don't read a history book

 

[funcrusher2007]

Dat deployment muneys~ Most soldiers come back with $20k+

I agree with trades. That is where I will steer my son. He will have my GI Bill to go anywhere he wants though. Be an electrician and work in solar energy or something. I cannot in good conscience recommend Universities these days and it will be worse in 17 years when he goes. It would be great if he could go to MIT or something but he might just as easily end up at Berkeley or Evergreen. Personally, I hope for something different for my kid. I was born into the warrior caste - great grandfathers, grandfathers, father, etc have all been to war.

The myth that the military is a safe play is very subjective. I mean considering the sheer amount of death and injuries we have as a profession it kinda sucks. But the MONEY is great. There aren't many professions with pensions anymore and that calculates outs to some incredible $$$. In my case, I put 10% of my base pay in the TSP (non-matched 401k), as well as a ROTH IRA, and my own investment brokerage account. My point is you can leave the military a millionaire easily if you save and invest wisely. I already have a million dollars in assets with 8 more years until retirement. Then the pension kicks in? Oh - house on the beach here I come.

Oh yeah I should also mention that is not typical for military retirement though. Most will give half their retirement away in their 1st or 2nd divorce. Any savings they could have had was consumed up in beer as a lower enlisted and quality spirits as they progress. Deployment money is usually pissed away on a new Mustang just months after return. And nobody thinks of saving in their 20's. The dream that their "pension" will take care of them usually leads them to working a second job at range control or TASC as a GS7 or contractor well into their 60's. At that point it's all you've ever known. So might as well head down to the VFW with your OEF/OIF hat and talk about that time when...

I recommend union trades..

I’m a union carpenter..but now a Superintendant

A journeymen carpenter
-80k a year(not counting overtime)
-Vacation pay twice a year (4000$ in July,4000$ In dec) wether he takes vacation or not.
-pension
-full medical,dental,optical for entire family.
-life insurance


If he says smart,which it sounds like he is..he could go into the construction management side and double all that above like me.

I dropped out of high school in senior year and have. A fair middle class life...hard work but I’m home at 3:00 pm everyday and weekends off. No student loan dept and love building shit.

 

[AFCrookie]

Keeping military standards separate from civilian standards is a very important distinction in freedom of expression

If you don't think certain civ recruits are up to standard either train them harder or don't train them at all, set the standards for combat-readiness in your ranks just like special forces and elite branches do, they don't hug it out with people who can't keep calm underwater during BUD/S training they drop them from the course

The problem is when you start to blend standards for your military with who gets to live in your civ population; when the military impose their ideals on the population at large you get military dictatorships and authoritarianism and killing of homosexuals and exiling political opponents and all that fun terrible shit

I'm not aiming those extreme parallels at any one poster on this site, I'm saying that backsliding away from modern freedoms and reforms is exactly where our military complaints about "pussification" and a desire for combat readiness in your civilians gets your dumb ass if you don't read a history book

That's very true. Same with people demanding that you demonstrate patriotism. I never stopped to think about the Pledge of Allegiance in school until I was an adult. Now, I took a voluntary oath when I enlisted, but the abstract idea of making small children repeat a "Pledge of ALLEGIANCE" to a flag is rather odd to me now as an adult. Patriotism should be earned, not mandated.

 

[Lead]

I wouldnt join the army for 20 to 30k a year either.

Yea, the low demand makes me wonder if they'd hike some of the wages as incentive.