Looking at other sports: Do PED test failures truly eliminate your ability to be considered great?

Marion Jones was goat female sprinter, PEDs were detected and she lost all gold medals

The cyclist Armstrong , goat until he was caught, so yes, PEDs take away from greatness

This , Serena should had been caught too but too many dark hands behind that. It automatically kills a big part of your legacy. Like bonds was a really good fucking baseball player before the juice but now everyone just associates him with steroids....
 
In 2006 many top Italian football clubs were implicated in a match-fixing scandal.

All I ask is for people to be consistent, that is all

I don't think football should be the benchmark as of how people consider cheaters because :

- it is the most corrupt sport in the world, both at the amateur level and the professionnal level
in no other professionnal sport you see as much cheating, insults etc (compare to rugby, which is more violent) american football, voleyball, hockey, whichever you pick

- even the structurs are the most corrupt : reference to FIFA issues

- even in the fan's eyes, for exemple a renowed cheater, maradona, is celebrated for cheating during the world cup (the english took revenge by kicking their ass at war for the falklands) instead of being shamed for it

To summarize, football which I like to watch, is the scum of the earth in terms of sports ethics, it's as if you were using a child rapist as a moral benchmark.
 
All the baseball dudes that got caught have their legacies tarnished so yeah
 
Yes of course. Cheaters deserve to be shamed
 
Wow I learned a lot from ur post about soccer from ur post ts. Seriously. They are all cheats to me now as well.
 
In 2006 many top Italian football clubs were implicated in a match-fixing scandal.

Top teams such as Juventus, AC Milan, Lazio and Fiorentina were caught for match-fixing and were given punishments accordingly. The main punishment was that of Juventus being stripped of the 04/05 Serie A title and being deducted so many points that they "lost" the 05/06 title also. In reality, they won both league titles and finished top, but due to the retrospective punishments they did not receive those titles. AC Milan who finished in second place were also caught for this offence and therefore never received the titles. The 04/05 title was left as "unawarded" and the 05/06 title was handed to third place Inter Milan.

Now let's be honest, if the top two clubs in the history of Italian football were caught match-fixing in two different seasons, who would possibly rule out the chance of this happening prior or afterwards? Juventus and AC Milan are legendary clubs, with the most money available to buy top talent, as well as elite academies to create and foster new talent. If clubs with all these advantages can match-fix, what are the little clubs doing?

I say all that to say this - Jon Jones, Anderson Silva and many others are supposedly now eradicated from MMA history. Their legendary stoppage victories, their wars in the cage and their amazing resumes now mean diddly squat. Much like the Serie A, we now are forced to look down the league table and award the title of GOAT to someone in the 6th place spot? Someone like Demetrious Johnson perhaps?

There is a saying that you're not a cheater until you pop, but it's simply not that black/white. Georges St. Pierre has yet to compete under one full USADA testing period, Fedor Emelianenko has never completed a USADA test ever, there are undying rumors of Jose Aldo Jr. falsifying urine tests and accidentally spilling them. Who knows who is cheating and who isn't, and who are we to judge?

The sport of MMA was born out of steroid abusing athletes, and it flourished into the mainstream whilst being devoid of any extensive PED testing what so ever - steroids are a part of this sport.

Brian Cushing and David Erving are two examples of great defensive talents in the NFL, both have been caught on PEDs and both of them have had small slaps on the wrist, a few games banned here and a few games banned there. It's a combat sport and it's similar to MMA in terms of danger to the competitors, yet the punishments are worlds apart.

Juventus and AC Milan are not eliminated from the history of Italian and world football for one mistake, and that same rule should apply to MMA fighters. You could easily go down the route of saying that one match-fixing scandal calls their whole history into question, but you could also argue that each test is it's own and that past failures cannot continue to be held against the athlete if they served their time.

My whole point in summary is that I believe in serving your time and being given another chance, I also believe that the vast majority of athletes bend the rules so I do not believe in picking and choosing who I criticize. Are PED failures blemishes? Sure. But I don't think they should be the overpowering factor that disqualifies one's legitimacy for their entire career.

I also question the lengths we are willing to go to crown a definitive GOAT athlete. Are we truly willing to say that the 14th place competitor in the Tour de France was truly the winner? Are we going to claim that Inter Milan were truly the best team in Italy? Are we going to to claim that Demetrious Johnson is better than Jon Jones, Anderson Silva, Georges St. Pierre and Jose Aldo just because he fits the criteria a little more snug?

All I ask is for people to be consistent, that is all
None of the steroid era baseball players are getting into the baseball hall of fame, including some that never actually failed a drug test (Such as Barry bonds).
 
A team isn't an individual so I don't know what the TS is getting at. Athletics was/is? so dirty they're talking about dumping any record made before 2005.
 
Testing positive twice is where I draw the line or testing positive once AND also had been on trt at one time or another. Those are the real cheaters in my book and there’s no way around it.
 
In 2006 many top Italian football clubs were implicated in a match-fixing scandal.

Top teams such as Juventus, AC Milan, Lazio and Fiorentina were caught for match-fixing and were given punishments accordingly. The main punishment was that of Juventus being stripped of the 04/05 Serie A title and being deducted so many points that they "lost" the 05/06 title also. In reality, they won both league titles and finished top, but due to the retrospective punishments they did not receive those titles. AC Milan who finished in second place were also caught for this offence and therefore never received the titles. The 04/05 title was left as "unawarded" and the 05/06 title was handed to third place Inter Milan.

Now let's be honest, if the top two clubs in the history of Italian football were caught match-fixing in two different seasons, who would possibly rule out the chance of this happening prior or afterwards? Juventus and AC Milan are legendary clubs, with the most money available to buy top talent, as well as elite academies to create and foster new talent. If clubs with all these advantages can match-fix, what are the little clubs doing?

I say all that to say this - Jon Jones, Anderson Silva and many others are supposedly now eradicated from MMA history. Their legendary stoppage victories, their wars in the cage and their amazing resumes now mean diddly squat. Much like the Serie A, we now are forced to look down the league table and award the title of GOAT to someone in the 6th place spot? Someone like Demetrious Johnson perhaps?

There is a saying that you're not a cheater until you pop, but it's simply not that black/white. Georges St. Pierre has yet to compete under one full USADA testing period, Fedor Emelianenko has never completed a USADA test ever, there are undying rumors of Jose Aldo Jr. falsifying urine tests and accidentally spilling them. Who knows who is cheating and who isn't, and who are we to judge?

The sport of MMA was born out of steroid abusing athletes, and it flourished into the mainstream whilst being devoid of any extensive PED testing what so ever - steroids are a part of this sport.

Brian Cushing and David Erving are two examples of great defensive talents in the NFL, both have been caught on PEDs and both of them have had small slaps on the wrist, a few games banned here and a few games banned there. It's a combat sport and it's similar to MMA in terms of danger to the competitors, yet the punishments are worlds apart.

Juventus and AC Milan are not eliminated from the history of Italian and world football for one mistake, and that same rule should apply to MMA fighters. You could easily go down the route of saying that one match-fixing scandal calls their whole history into question, but you could also argue that each test is it's own and that past failures cannot continue to be held against the athlete if they served their time.

My whole point in summary is that I believe in serving your time and being given another chance, I also believe that the vast majority of athletes bend the rules so I do not believe in picking and choosing who I criticize. Are PED failures blemishes? Sure. But I don't think they should be the overpowering factor that disqualifies one's legitimacy for their entire career.

I also question the lengths we are willing to go to crown a definitive GOAT athlete. Are we truly willing to say that the 14th place competitor in the Tour de France was truly the winner? Are we going to claim that Inter Milan were truly the best team in Italy? Are we going to to claim that Demetrious Johnson is better than Jon Jones, Anderson Silva, Georges St. Pierre and Jose Aldo just because he fits the criteria a little more snug?

All I ask is for people to be consistent, that is all
All one has to do is look at how Barry Bonds and Lance Armstrong are now viewed within sports and their accomplishments. Both men aren't held in such high regard any longer and both aren't even public figures any longer, since the steroid issues and resulting findings since. Yet, both men were at one time in their careers and after, considered two of the best, in sports in which they competed and dominated in.
 
But I want to ask you. I think you are irresistibly dumb

But I don't care what you are asking me as it's irrelevant to what I said.

Don't be upset because Anderson is a cheating bastard
 
But I don't care what you are asking me as it's irrelevant to what I said.

Don't be upset because Anderson is a cheating bastard
I’m not upset: you are. Also, he never cheated: what are you talking about????
 
I’m not upset: you are. Also, he never cheated: what are you talking about????

You clearly are hence why you felt the need to firstly respond to my post about shaming cheaters (who you just happen to idolise one) and then ask me an irrelevant question.

I'm upset at how stupid you are
 
It is impossible to eliminate a fighter's accomplishments, but it certainly taints their legacy big time.
 
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