Looking at other sports: Do PED test failures truly eliminate your ability to be considered great?

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by The Natural Born Runner, Oct 11, 2017.

  1. The Natural Born Runner Beat the snot out of him.

    The Natural Born Runner
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    In 2006 many top Italian football clubs were implicated in a match-fixing scandal.

    Top teams such as Juventus, AC Milan, Lazio and Fiorentina were caught for match-fixing and were given punishments accordingly. The main punishment was that of Juventus being stripped of the 04/05 Serie A title and being deducted so many points that they "lost" the 05/06 title also. In reality, they won both league titles and finished top, but due to the retrospective punishments they did not receive those titles. AC Milan who finished in second place were also caught for this offence and therefore never received the titles. The 04/05 title was left as "unawarded" and the 05/06 title was handed to third place Inter Milan.

    Now let's be honest, if the top two clubs in the history of Italian football were caught match-fixing in two different seasons, who would possibly rule out the chance of this happening prior or afterwards? Juventus and AC Milan are legendary clubs, with the most money available to buy top talent, as well as elite academies to create and foster new talent. If clubs with all these advantages can match-fix, what are the little clubs doing?

    I say all that to say this - Jon Jones, Anderson Silva and many others are supposedly now eradicated from MMA history. Their legendary stoppage victories, their wars in the cage and their amazing resumes now mean diddly squat. Much like the Serie A, we now are forced to look down the league table and award the title of GOAT to someone in the 6th place spot? Someone like Demetrious Johnson perhaps?

    There is a saying that you're not a cheater until you pop, but it's simply not that black/white. Georges St. Pierre has yet to compete under one full USADA testing period, Fedor Emelianenko has never completed a USADA test ever, there are undying rumors of Jose Aldo Jr. falsifying urine tests and accidentally spilling them. Who knows who is cheating and who isn't, and who are we to judge?

    The sport of MMA was born out of steroid abusing athletes, and it flourished into the mainstream whilst being devoid of any extensive PED testing what so ever - steroids are a part of this sport.

    Brian Cushing and David Erving are two examples of great defensive talents in the NFL, both have been caught on PEDs and both of them have had small slaps on the wrist, a few games banned here and a few games banned there. It's a combat sport and it's similar to MMA in terms of danger to the competitors, yet the punishments are worlds apart.

    Juventus and AC Milan are not eliminated from the history of Italian and world football for one mistake, and that same rule should apply to MMA fighters. You could easily go down the route of saying that one match-fixing scandal calls their whole history into question, but you could also argue that each test is it's own and that past failures cannot continue to be held against the athlete if they served their time.

    My whole point in summary is that I believe in serving your time and being given another chance, I also believe that the vast majority of athletes bend the rules so I do not believe in picking and choosing who I criticize. Are PED failures blemishes? Sure. But I don't think they should be the overpowering factor that disqualifies one's legitimacy for their entire career.

    I also question the lengths we are willing to go to crown a definitive GOAT athlete. Are we truly willing to say that the 14th place competitor in the Tour de France was truly the winner? Are we going to claim that Inter Milan were truly the best team in Italy? Are we going to to claim that Demetrious Johnson is better than Jon Jones, Anderson Silva, Georges St. Pierre and Jose Aldo just because he fits the criteria a little more snug?

    All I ask is for people to be consistent, that is all
     
    #1
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2017
  2. ortizgnp Original Vince Belt

    ortizgnp
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    Turinabol taught me spinning shit.
     
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  3. Coolidge Yellow Card

    Coolidge
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    Yes. Next story.
     
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  4. Congo66 Brown Belt

    Congo66
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    Comparing a cheating individual with a club make no sense at all as there are different people in the team and running the team each year/over a period of time.

    Compare Jones with Ben Johnson or Lance Armstrong.
     
    #4
  5. Threetrees KONE did absolutely everything wrong

    Threetrees
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    Here's another hit Barry Bonds
     
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  6. yookfarb Black Belt

    yookfarb
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    coming from Cyborg's biggest fan? damn that means a lot
     
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  7. KB Warrior Purple Belt

    KB Warrior
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    In the NFL? No.

    In other sports? Yes.
     
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  8. The Natural Born Runner Beat the snot out of him.

    The Natural Born Runner
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    It's a great point lol.
     
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  9. The Natural Born Runner Beat the snot out of him.

    The Natural Born Runner
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    One of his weaker songs. Still a good album.
     
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  10. The Natural Born Runner Beat the snot out of him.

    The Natural Born Runner
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    Why the lack of consistency?
     
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  11. Franklin U. Silver Belt

    Franklin U.
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    I'll never forget when I first saw Sammy Sosa then the following year- first chance he had to do an interview, he did it shirtless and I was " what in the stick a needle in my ass bullshit is this?" He literally looked like 2 different human beings.
     
    #11
  12. Threetrees KONE did absolutely everything wrong

    Threetrees
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    Its what ya all been waiting for aint, what people paid paper for dammit I can't explain they want something new

    weak song but some great bars

    I don't need writeeers I might bounce ideeeeas
    but only I could come up with some shit like this
     
    #12
  13. The Natural Born Runner Beat the snot out of him.

    The Natural Born Runner
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    You don't think players who are deliberately being paid to influence the outcome of multiple matches is in fact worse?

    You may be juiced up, but we've seen many "clean" fighters run over "juiced up" fighters. You'd be hard pressed to see a team win a game when one player is scoring own goals on purpose.
     
    #13
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  14. The Natural Born Runner Beat the snot out of him.

    The Natural Born Runner
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    Ironic that he claimed to not have any ghost writers, meanwhile he barely makes any of his own beats anymore.
     
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  15. Threetrees KONE did absolutely everything wrong

    Threetrees
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    Nobody has cared about PEDs since the early 90s, and even then it was just a passing fancy
    And theres plenty of bigger issues facing that league so no one really gives a shit
    Guys get their PED suspensions and we move on. First time offenders is legitimately just a slap on the wrist. Media covers weed failures more vehemently
     
    #15
  16. LilChuckLil GIF Meistro

    LilChuckLil
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    Natural Born... Steroid-sympathiser

    GSP is in the conversation, as well as MM but to be truly great in the sport you got to fight clean.

    Martial arts init
     
    #16
  17. Limbo Pete Super Samoderator Belt

    Limbo Pete
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    "Come on, guys. It's not like cheating helps that much."
     
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  18. Roukas Yellow Card

    Roukas
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    No because then Bobby Lashley would be GOAT
     
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  19. Quebec Nick Blue Belt

    Quebec Nick
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    IT's all about how the league / promoters react and how big of a deal it is in the media.

    In the NFL, it's just a press release with the suspension, the comentators barely talk about it, it's almost as if it's stat, like the number of fumbles in a game.

    The MLB, went crazy about it, they shut down a lot of careers, they put the guys in a basement and they acted like they never existed. Roger Clemens, Barry Bonds... Who the fook are those guys.

    NHL hockey, they have some cases from time to time but they don't test seriously , it comes in the media when a former enforcer kills himself but that's it. They react like the NFL, it's just a press release and we don't talk about it after.

    For MMA, the testing and suspensions are out of the hands of the promotion, and then you have batshit crazy Dana White that, depending on the moon cycles, will react strongly or just ignore it.
     
    #19
  20. yookfarb Black Belt

    yookfarb
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    [​IMG]
     
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