Logically, Steroid Usage Has No Impact On GOAT Status

[DustinBeaver]

id like to see a mandatory steroid league. perhaps in international waters on a luxury cruise ship.

 

[Sirwastealot]

This is a great example of how logic does not work.

Thanks for the demonstration TS.

 

[Filthymaggot]

I completely disagree. All you have to do is look at some fighters pre and post usada.
Why would fighters risk their careers in cheating if it did not give them an advantage? Doesn't make sense

Exactly. Prime example is Belfort, he was a killer when he was overusing his trt exemption. After they banned it the guy can’t finish a sandwhich.

 

[Taric]

slaughter in the water is such a sweet promo name lol

 

[Myrddin Wild]

GOAT's winz pre-USADA are all good... cause everyone was doing it or could do it & chose not too... but once you get into the USADA era, that's when it starts becoming a real issue.

It does speak volumes about a fighter like Mouse though who has kept it going pre- & post USADA. GSP to a lesser extent mainly because he's only fought once so far post-USADA. Aldo hasn't popped post-USADA, but his win steak didn't hold up either.

 

[trav0614]

I think that Franc Mittelo has had too many concussions. I'm sorry to hear about that.

 

[in the liver]

If you want to say that Anderson Silva and Jon Jones are not GOAT status because of steroid usage, that is fine, we are all entitled to our unreasonable religious superiority beliefs. However, logically, it doesn't make sense.

My question is this, how much down the ranking does steroid usage demote a fighter? It is easy to say "GSP is the GOAT over Jon Jones, because GSP never tested positive for steroids." Fine. But what about a guy like Paul Craig who has a record of 1-2 in the UFC, is he also better than Jon Jones because he has never tested positive for steroids?

How many of you can seriously say Paul Craig and CB Dollaway are more deserving of GOAT status than Jon Jones, because they never tested positive for steroids?

If you can't say it with confidence, then steroids don't affect GOAT talk. If you can say it with confidence, then we have to agree that GOAT talk is not based on fighting ability.

if you cheat then you lose. also, you, personally, lose.

 

[Dbreiden83080]

It does not make you great but it makes the greats even better. And good fighters suddenly elite.

 

[2GunTommy]

Arnold once said "the men who win when everyone is on steroids are the same men who would win when everyone is off steroids".

Ofc this only is relevant when everyone is on the same page.

 

[turbotime]

They can be ranked with other cheaters. Jones is the top dog outta the abusers.

 

[chinarice]

You've got to be kidding.

Sosa went from hitting 36 HRs with a .251 batting average in 1997, to hitting 66 HRs and batting .308 in 1998.

McGwire had years where he flirted with the Medoza line, and then hit .299, with 70 HRs in 1998.

You don't even need to look at the big guns for it, either. In 1993, 1994, and 1995 Brady Anderson hit .263, .263, and .262 respectively, with 13, 12, and 16 HRs respectively. Then in 1996 he hit .297 with 50 HRs.

Bonds himself could always hit, and was always somewhere around .300, but he never led the league in batting average until age 37, in 2002, the year after he broke the HR record... and then again in 2004, at 39 years old (.370 and .362 respectively).

And Ken Griffey Jr is one of the most over rated baseball players of all time.

You may be one of the least educated baseball fans I have ever seen. Ken Griffey Jr. overrated? You're too stupid for words.

 

[Beta Wolf]

If you can say it with confidence, then we have to agree that GOAT talk is not based on fighting ability.

GOAT talk is based on the fighting ability of non-cheating fighters.

/thread

Ban TS for shitposting

 

[TheAmericanGazelle]

Cheating doesn't move you down the list. It removes you *from* the list.

Just like if we discovered Ronda had a dick...that would remove her from the all-time GOAT list for women. Not drop her five slots as a "has a dick" penalty.

 

[Pacemaker Joe]

Cheating doesn't move you down the list. It removes you *from* the list.

Just like if we discovered Ronda had a dick...that would remove her from the all-time GOAT list for women.

So you're saying the lawsuit should go forward then?

 

[TheAmericanGazelle]

So you're saying the lawsuit should go forward then?

It seems so, especially considering the source.

 

[JayJayMMA]

You bobbing and weaving better than Androstenedione Silva when he fought Forrest Griffin (who was confirmed to be on steroids at that time).

It is an easy challenge. The ranking system is GOAT to 7 Billionth. If you can't be in the GOAT position because you were caught using steroids, by what logic, can you still be ranked number 2, 3, 4 and etc.

Explain that to me. How do you understand it?

I understand where you are coming from with the question however just because someone is disqualified from the list doesn't mean their skill set has changed. They are just simply off the list.

Think about 100m sprinters, ranking the top 10 of all time is easy as it is time based and if someone tested positive to PED then they are simply disqualified and their time isn't registered on that list, they don't drop down further.

When it comes to GOAT in MMA it is more subjective but the same logic applies however people will either choose to ignore a fighter's positive test or not, once again they are either on it or not.

Ranking more than a few anyway diminishes what the name GOAT suggests, even saying 2nd on the GOAT list doesn't really make much sense but is accepted in discussions.

 

[TehJesus]

I don't believe a fighter has ever lost a fight because his opponent was on steroids. Maybe, endurance enhancing PEDs like EPO and other forms of blood doping like self-transfusion.

If you are the better fighter on fight night, you not going to lose because your opponent is on TRT. The margin in fighting is not that narrow. Just my opinion.

This is one of the most stunningly ignorant things I've ever read. You should listen/experience more and talk less.

 

[DWAYNEAMERICA]

Anyone who sincerely believes ped use is inconsequential is a dumb fucking worthless piece of shit in need of a good jaw-cracking.

 

[Wariowokecancel]

If you want to say that Anderson Silva and Jon Jones are not GOAT status because of steroid usage, that is fine, we are all entitled to our unreasonable religious superiority beliefs. However, logically, it doesn't make sense.

My question is this, how much down the ranking does steroid usage demote a fighter? It is easy to say "GSP is the GOAT over Jon Jones, because GSP never tested positive for steroids." Fine. But what about a guy like Paul Craig who has a record of 1-2 in the UFC, is he also better than Jon Jones because he has never tested positive for steroids?

How many of you can seriously say Paul Craig and CB Dollaway are more deserving of GOAT status than Jon Jones, because they never tested positive for steroids?

If you can't say it with confidence, then steroids don't affect GOAT talk. If you can say it with confidence, then we have to agree that GOAT talk is not based on fighting ability.

Logically if I always take a baseball bat to the fist fight in the Octagon, I’m still GOAT.

 

[Blank7]

A logical argument can be made for not disqualifying people that test positive for steroids in a field where it is most likely that a majority (>50) percentage of the participants are using. No one on here will want to recognize it because they can't even wrap their mind around it, they just regurgitate what the next person says because it's easy, they never really dive into the discussion with anything logical. It's like arguing with a religious person, at the end of the day they are still saying "universe complex, must be god" every single time. When you come across people that have at best a wiki understanding of steroids, it's no surprise they think only the people that get caught or look like they are juiced to the grills are using. It can't be their favorite fighter because in their minds the best way to eliminate a fighter that is possibly better than their favorite fighter is to use a failed drug test. It just blows my mind that it is only the 1 failed test that will ruin the fighter, I can go back to a period before Brock came back to the UFC and claim he was the best HW because at the time he did not a fail a single test. Or we can go back to Pride, an org where a lot of these people get their GOAT fighters from, and org that was known to have the most laxed testing ever, where they really only tested for recreational drugs.

Honestly, it doesn't really bother me, the opinion of anyone here, including myself, don't matter. We would like to think they do but they don't.