Logically, Steroid Usage Has No Impact On GOAT Status | Page 5

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by Franc Mittelo, Nov 11, 2017.

  1. deltapapha Purple Belt

    deltapapha
    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2015
    Messages:
    2,404
    Likes Received:
    1,970
    Let's say I was all-knowing and I had a shotgun to your groin and you had to bet your nads that GSP was clean throughout his belt defense streak . . . ?

    You don't have to answer. We already know.
     
    #81
  2. peterparker66 Black Belt

    peterparker66
    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2013
    Messages:
    5,258
    Likes Received:
    1,622
    wouldn't the greatest cheatery cheatertons , cheat so good that they get away with it ?????
     
    #82
  3. chinarice Silver Belt

    chinarice
    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    12,774
    Likes Received:
    10,236
    Location:
    Sometimes I like to fart in the tub
    Said person has to retire then out themselves as a cheaty cheaterton. Has yet to happen. Perhaps Randy "TRT" Couture, actually?
     
    #83
    peterparker66 likes this.
  4. peterparker66 Black Belt

    peterparker66
    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2013
    Messages:
    5,258
    Likes Received:
    1,622
    <mma4>
     
    #84
  5. xMaxPower Brown Belt

    xMaxPower
    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2013
    Messages:
    4,799
    Likes Received:
    2,680
    thread/

    TS learn the rules bruh
     
    #85
    sirmorbach likes this.
  6. MMArtsfan Yellow Belt

    MMArtsfan
    Joined:
    May 18, 2011
    Messages:
    233
    Likes Received:
    93
    This folks is called a strawman arguement. Since OP can't win the arguement of "who is better: GSP, Anderson Silva or Jon Jones" because the latter 2 have PED violations he decides to conflate the arguement with a more absurd one and attacks the premise from that angle. The problem with this "logic" is OP is trying to say "If A+B=D and B+C=D then A+C=D as well." But it's a false premise, don't get sucked in by bad poor structure. If he had a tangible arguement that could hold up to scrutiny, he wouldn't need to bring up anything but the primary subjects.
     
    #86
  7. BALLERSTATUSMCG Remove head from ass and set mind to purpose.

    BALLERSTATUSMCG
    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2015
    Messages:
    2,833
    Likes Received:
    2,360
    Jon can't compete at the highest level without steroids. thats a fact. Or else why would he get caught twice in the usada era?
     
    #87
  8. TrueFightFan Fight Purist

    TrueFightFan
    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2016
    Messages:
    1,541
    Likes Received:
    797
    Are you crying? I mean, are you crying as you type this?
     
    #88
  9. Blank7 Orange Belt

    Blank7
    Joined:
    May 10, 2016
    Messages:
    415
    Likes Received:
    560
    It's just a way to ez mode discredit a fighter you don't like. I would have done it to Fedor fans for life if he ever failed, even he it was recent fail.
     
    #89
  10. wompuscatwilly Purple Belt

    wompuscatwilly
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2011
    Messages:
    1,528
    Likes Received:
    223
    Location:
    Cincinnati
    I don't support any kind of PED usage.....except for marijuana (which is a mystery to me that it can be considered a PED). Steroids ruined the nostalgia of baseball but if you were a player and you knew the pitchers you're facing are juicing wouldn't you want to level the playing field to stay relevant? Just like in baseball though, steroids may help you hit the ball longer but they don't help you hit the ball. In fighting they may (idk) help your strength but they don't help with precision. Anderson for example wasn't stopping people because of the punching power, it was the precision of his punches. They didn't help Jones KTFO of anyone and they certainly didn't make him have the creativity he had in the cage, which with his reach are his best tools.
     
    #90
  11. jeremyemilio Silver Belt

    jeremyemilio
    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2007
    Messages:
    10,921
    Likes Received:
    3,265
    Tell it to Barry Bonds.

    Easily GOAT numbers. EASILY.

    Can't even get into the HOF.

    Does that mean we rank him lower than some bench Mookie Wilson and Bill Buckner?

    Hell no.

    He's still top 5 all time. I have him at number 3.

    But he's not the GOAT.
     
    #91
  12. Franc Mittelo Green Belt

    Franc Mittelo
    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2017
    Messages:
    1,294
    Likes Received:
    2,139
    I am asking for a logical explanation. I know your position, but now I want to know how you came to this conclusion. What is the logic behind your position?
     
    #92
  13. Krimzon Purple Belt

    Krimzon
    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2006
    Messages:
    1,820
    Likes Received:
    278
    Location:
    Ottawa, ON
    i told you breh, taking steroids disqualifies bones from the non-steroid rankings. he's in the steroid rankings now. In it, he's #1. I have TRT vitor as #2
     
    #93
  14. jeremyemilio Silver Belt

    jeremyemilio
    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2007
    Messages:
    10,921
    Likes Received:
    3,265
    Steroids absolutely help you hit the ball. Improved strength means improved bat speed which translates into hitting the ball better. They also help you take longer batting practice. Not to mention that they literally allow your body to stay younger while your brain is still gaining experience.

    Ditto for fighting. There are countless things that PEDs do for you that help give an edge in all sorts of sports.
     
    #94
    Oddmonster likes this.
  15. wompuscatwilly Purple Belt

    wompuscatwilly
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2011
    Messages:
    1,528
    Likes Received:
    223
    Location:
    Cincinnati
    HR's went through the roof in that era but batting averages didn't. They help significantly more with how far you hit the ball than hand eye coordination. PEDs suck and it's a shame that's it has gotten to where it is. IMO, with fighting I'm not sure how much usage affects my opinion of GOAT status.

    If the rule is that it automatically eliminates you from GOAT talk, then Randy Couture is GOAT and Ken Griffey Jr is the best baseball player we've seen in the last 50 years.
     
    #95
  16. jeremyemilio Silver Belt

    jeremyemilio
    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2007
    Messages:
    10,921
    Likes Received:
    3,265
    With Bonds it's actually not too difficult to pinpoint. when he started using. After the McGwire/Sosa fiasco, he decided to level the playing field and remind everyone of his proper place.

    Before that, Bonds was heading to the top three without PEDs. He was gunning to become baseball's only 500-500 guy, and probably 600-500. Add that to top 10 OPS, OBP, and Slugging, and a half dozen or so Gold Gloves, and there'd have been no good argument for anyone being better but Ruth and Mays.

    Then he juiced, and blew the lid off all the records that mattered. That part I don't count. But I'm not going to take away everything that happened before that.
     
    #96
  17. Rav1nHunter Double Yellow Card

    Rav1nHunter
    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2015
    Messages:
    4,881
    Likes Received:
    6,321
    Location:
    Terra Australis
    How do these retards get access to computers?
     
    #97
    Oddmonster and west42 like this.
  18. Neckie McBeard #1 Bullshit

    Neckie McBeard
    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2016
    Messages:
    249
    Likes Received:
    439
    [​IMG]
     
    #98
  19. jeremyemilio Silver Belt

    jeremyemilio
    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2007
    Messages:
    10,921
    Likes Received:
    3,265
    You've got to be kidding.

    Sosa went from hitting 36 HRs with a .251 batting average in 1997, to hitting 66 HRs and batting .308 in 1998.

    McGwire had years where he flirted with the Medoza line, and then hit .299, with 70 HRs in 1998.

    You don't even need to look at the big guns for it, either. In 1993, 1994, and 1995 Brady Anderson hit .263, .263, and .262 respectively, with 13, 12, and 16 HRs respectively. Then in 1996 he hit .297 with 50 HRs.

    Bonds himself could always hit, and was always somewhere around .300, but he never led the league in batting average until age 37, in 2002, the year after he broke the HR record... and then again in 2004, at 39 years old (.370 and .362 respectively).

    And Ken Griffey Jr is one of the most over rated baseball players of all time.
     
    #99
  20. wompuscatwilly Purple Belt

    wompuscatwilly
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2011
    Messages:
    1,528
    Likes Received:
    223
    Location:
    Cincinnati
    I can agree with what you said until Ken Griffey Jr.....don't be a moron. He's the only star of that era NEVER linked to steroids. How many gold gloves did he win? Well over 600 HR's.....the absolute sweetest swing maybe in the history of baseball. You can't be serious on the Griffey note.....who's better?
     
    #100

Share This Page

monitoring_string = "fd5733925866a04e50edd70f38dfaa35"
monitoring_string = "603ac9fff68f23709f2a42bf5e29272b"