Logically, Steroid Usage Has No Impact On GOAT Status

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by Franc Mittelo, Nov 11, 2017.

  1. Franc Mittelo

    Franc Mittelo Banned Banned

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    So, GOAT is not a ranking based on demonstrated fighting ability at the highest level. It is about how we feel about a fighter's achievements.
     
  2. ExitLUPin

    ExitLUPin K

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    Gotta love how much Anderson stans were shitting on Shale for steroid use years ago and now theyve done a complete 180 lmfao
     
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  3. fijuviju

    fijuviju Orange Belt

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    I am using basic math rankings too.Currently is no1,then goes no2,no3...Ped abusers are divided by zero,something you are not allowed to do.
     
  4. Lint2

    Lint2 Purple Belt

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    We know, we just can't prove it.

    You're damn right on your topic, but that's something pretty volatile, each one judges on its own way and most likely we judge harsher the fighters we don't fancy, Jones for example should take more fire for it than Silva due to stupid stuff he do outside UFC (and the whole eyepoke thing, maybe some oblique kicks as well, and so on, Silva also looks less menaceful)

    Back in the pre-USADA days I used to care a lot about it because I thought that fighters who were not bodybuilders had a fairly good chance of not abusing it, that included both Silva and Jones altogether with a large bunch of others, but nowadays I just think everyone is roiding but those who have more to lose are more likely to abuse it close to the cycling-time limit.

    I think most of these pops are because less and less levels of intoxication are required to be testes as positive, therefore you must quit PEDs much sooner than what it used to be.
     
  5. Arm Barbarian

    Arm Barbarian Steel Belt Platinum Member

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    He was trying to show them the infra-red safety feature of the van door against closing on people, and it failed, much like TS.
     
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  6. HIMBOB

    HIMBOB Steel Belt

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    It pushes him further down the line depending on the nature of their failure.

    For instance Jones getting caught twice in his prime with proper PEDs is more of a penalty than silva popping twice for similar stuff after his prime.
    Machida disclosing a banned vitamin wouldn't really effect his standing.
     
  7. deltapapha

    deltapapha Brown Belt

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    lol at people still saying GSP never juiced.


    In response to OP's thread, (not really directly to his inquiry) but the fact is that until . . . shit I'll go head and start a new line to make it easier for shertards:


    Until testing science gets to where fighters can't figure out ways to avoid getting caught, the "Can't be GOAT because he popped" argument is meaningless.

    AGAIN

    Until testing science gets to where fighters can't figure out ways to avoid getting caught, the "Can't be GOAT because he popped" argument is meaningless.
     
  8. HIMBOB

    HIMBOB Steel Belt

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    Really?
     
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  9. cevo

    cevo Black Belt

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    didn't read

    you're an idiot
     
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  10. HIMBOB

    HIMBOB Steel Belt

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    Earth is flat.

    Repeat

    Earth is flat.

    Are you convinced?
     
  11. Davey Crockett

    Davey Crockett Mane, Firmino, Salah

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    {<jordan}
     
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  12. Franc Mittelo

    Franc Mittelo Banned Banned

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    So, he can't be better than GSP but he can be better than Chris Camozzi. Is this what you are implying?
     
  13. bubbleboyjones

    bubbleboyjones Belt Purple

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    The problem with PEDs is you can't prove everyone who does them. You can only prove who tests postive for a particular substance at a particular time. The amount of guys who pop for PEDs is no where near the amount of guys who have use them and get away with it.

    The only way you can really look at PEDs is to exclude fights from a fighters resume where they popped and received a NC. For example Silva never popped for a drug test between 1997-2013. Failing a test in 2015 doesn't prove he did or didn't do PEDs between 1997-2013. We simply don't know either way. GSP never popped from 2002-2013. He came back in 2017 and so far has not failed a test. Just like Silva it doesn't mean he wasn't taking PEDs from 2002 to 2013. We don't know either way, we just know no tests came back positive.

    It's like drunk driving. You can go for years of driving shitface and never get pulled over. Or speeding....you can go years and years and never get pulled over if you're smart about it and have some luck on your side. It doesn't mean you never done it and deserve a person of the year award. It just means you were never caught.
     
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  14. unfinishable

    unfinishable Green Belt

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    It is completely subjective, there is no real goat rankings which is why you can't compare it to real rankings.
    Maybe when Jones comes back he won't be the same and will be ranked lower than Paul Craig, we don't know yet, we have to wait and see to find out.
     
  15. TrainingAdict

    TrainingAdict Orange Belt

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    Anderson Silva and Jon Jones approves of this thread for obvious reasons.
     
  16. Sarge3000

    Sarge3000 Orange Belt

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    What a retarded OP.
    I'd drop GSP or any fighter for that matter from GOAT status if they tested positive for PEDs.
    Why? Simple. Its not a PED sport. Its supposed to be clean. Its not pro-bodybuilding or something.

    GOAT status is pretty simple in terms of criteria:
    - No PED.
    - Veteran of the sport (many fights).
    - Excellent win/loss ratio. Can have losses but must avenge them and overall win 90% of time.
    - From a technical standpoint be brilliant (IE: Not be 100% BJJ like Maia and suck in other areas).
    - Be in a division with a very deep talent pool (this is why I have trouble placing DJ in GOAT rankings).

    My top 3 were:
    1. Anderson Silva (prime)
    2. Jon Jones
    3. GSP

    1 & 2 dropped because of PEDs. That leaves only GSP so far.

    You have no evidence he took PEDs.
    Your allegation's worth is about the same as if I said you groped my privates yesterday at a party.
    That is, no worth.
     
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  17. Franc Mittelo

    Franc Mittelo Banned Banned

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    The 'real rankings' are equally subjective.

    If you are going to disqualified a fighter based on a positive steroid test, that means he didn't achieve anything in the sport, and he is as good as a 0-0 fighter or a even a coach potato who has never competed at any level. That just seems like a ridiculous overreaction. It just doesn't make sense. LOL
     
  18. Franc Mittelo

    Franc Mittelo Banned Banned

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    Let us hypothetical say that, 10 years from now, USADA publishes an article stating that they have used new testing procedures on stored samples, and discovered all the GOATs of MMA were taking an undetectable drug, and Chris Camozzi had the best record of all fighters who were clean.

    Would you then erase every single fighter you have believed were the GOATs for 10 years, and start to believe that Chris Camozzi is the real GOAT of mma?

    That seems a bit silly to me, but if you believe in it, do you. LOL
     
  19. fijuviju

    fijuviju Orange Belt

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    I see sherdogs Protagoras is still trying.
    Lets try this way.If we rank every human being that lived on planet Earth,in terms of being good person,does that means that Hitler did nothing wrong?If you say yes,what's the logic behind?So saying that Hitler is not good person is not logically possible.
     
  20. unfinishable

    unfinishable Green Belt

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    If you can't do the time, don't do the crime. All fighters know the consequences of failing a ped test, but yet still risk it to get an advantage.
    Getting caught puts everything you accomplished in question, so yes, you almost have to start at 0.
    Why don't you try looking at it from a clean fighters perspective and then you will understand
     

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