LISS after HIIT ?

I have another questions for you guys. Let say for boxing or muay thai, can you focus on HIIT on the heavy bag, drills and mitt works and do LISS outside your skill training such as jump roping or jogging?

The LISS is for general adaptations, the pad work should be specifically directed in some way. Either focusing on some element of the technical execution of your strikes, working on maximum power, getting as much input as you can in a given period of time, learning to relax...etc etc. There shouldn't be just one thing that your bag work/pad work does all year.
 
I am certainly no expert, just regurgitating info from sources I trust, whose methods work for me. I tend to shy away from the do-only-this camp. There's a place and context for everything depending on your goal. If I was a power lifter I probably wouldn't worry about LISS too much and just get what little aerobic/anaerobic conditioning I needed from HIIT. As someone who trains & prioritizes Muay Thai, you can be damn sure I'll be including a LISS/Base Building Block as part of my annual plan.


You've mentioned how training aerobic and anaerobic are opposing, I was wondering to what extent would this apply? would that only apply once a beginner who's trained everything together hits a point were depending on what their goal is, they would have too put more time into one area in order to excel?

What about boxers and muay thai figthers that concurrently train both during camp? High volume of LISS (jogs, long runs) followed by Anerobic work.

I remember even Joel mentioning how some of his guys who added a couple of liss to their current training helped improve their gas tank.

Wouldnt all this be opposing?


Just wanted to clarify since it seems the best way to train something is it to isolate for certain periods depending on the goal/sport
 
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You've mentioned how training aerobic and anaerobic are opposing, I was wondering to what extent would this apply? would that only apply once a beginner who's trained everything together hits a point were depending on what their goal is, they would have too put more time into one area in order to excel?

What about boxers and muay thai figthers that concurrently train both during camp? High volume of LISS (jogs, long runs) followed by Anerobic work.

I remember even Joel mentioning how some of his guys who added a couple of liss to their current training helped improve their gas tank.

Wouldnt all this be opposing?

I don't think it's that they cancel eachother or anything like that. I think it's just that the metabolic pathways that trigger the desired adaptations overlap and interfere with eachother to some extent. The signal is going through, but it is muted or a little. So you just get less adaptation when you train them concurrently, past a certain level.

Physiology/metabolism guys, please correct me if I am wrong.
 
You've mentioned how training aerobic and anaerobic are opposing, I was wondering to what extent would this apply? would that only apply once a beginner who's trained everything together hits a point were depending on what their goal is, they would have too put more time into one area in order to excel?

What about boxers and muay thai figthers that concurrently train both during camp? High volume of LISS (jogs, long runs) followed by Anerobic work.

I think we have to differentiate LISS and long runs.

LISS when used in the context of base building has an upper HR limit, usually 120-150bpm or using Maffetone Max aerobic HR. Usually with the goal of focusing on ventricular hypertrophy and a few other adaptations (increased use of fat as fuel source, more efficient mitochondria etc).

Long runs outside of a base building context don't need to adhere to a HR limit. You can go as fast as you want. They might not be the most efficient way to obtain that ventricular hypertrophy, but they provide a host of other benefits (speed, improved threshold, etc) that BB style LISS doesn't.

So with LISS for Base purposes, adding in sprint intervals (or anaerobic work) and such isn't efficient. For long runs after Base training, they're fine and probably provide benefits (fartleks, fun-runs etc).

So if you're training MT in Thailand for example and doing the morning hour long run, you're still getting a ton of aerobic benefit. In addition to the cardio you get during the afternoon pad sessions/bag work/sparring and whatnot. But it's not necessarily base building in the strictest sense if you're not adhering to a max HR.

Using the Thailand example, if you wanted to get serious, a more appropriate approach would be to spend a month or two doing doing a LISS Base training block, and then heading to Thailand. You'd be able to get the benefits of Base in isolation, and then switch over to faster long runs, speed work, pads, sparring etc.

All this is relative, if you've got a crappy aerobic system/shitty gas tank you might spend more time Base training before transitioning to speed/tempo work, if it's already decent or not an issue you might do very little (ie 4-6 weeks vs say 3 months).

Edit: to clarify when I use the term "Base Training" I'm referring to a period of isolated aerobic training with a Max Heartrate limit and a minimum number of sessions per week. The dose for the desired adaptation seems to be 3-7 sessions per week/minimum 30 minutes per session, for 5-8 weeks+. These runs wouldn't contain intervals or hills etc. just steady state/low intensity/without going over max HR.
 
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Some of these adaptations that oppose each other are things the average dude doesn't have to worry about IMO.

Example, max-strength training and aerobic training work against each other (through mTor pathways or something, don't know the exact science) but the average guy is going to benefit more by doing both than by just doing one (if the goal is all around fitness). The guy that has to worry about these minute contradictions is the professional athlete in the top 1% that makes his living specializing in one or the other and can win or lose by the smallest of margins.
 
Some of these adaptations that oppose each other are things the average dude doesn't have to worry about IMO.

Example, max-strength training and aerobic training work against each other (through mTor pathways or something, don't know the exact science) but the average guy is going to benefit more by doing both than by just doing one (if the goal is all around fitness). The guy that has to worry about these minute contradictions is the professional athlete in the top 1% that makes his living specializing in one or the other and can win or lose by the smallest of margins.

I actually remember posting on this in the studies thread.

.....concurrent training and TSC 1,2's role on mTOR. This study wasn't entirely on TSC 1,2 but it does mention it as inhibiting mTOR possibly, and from some of my physiology classes, similar notions have been cited.

"Activation of AMPK by endurance exercise may inhibit mTOR signaling via tuberous sclerosis complex (TSC) and suppress resistance-exercise-induced muscle-protein synthesis"
http://www.8weeksout.com/wordpress/...rance-training-are-they-incompatible-2009.pdf
 
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