Lifting weights and Boxing.

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by Crimson Glory, Mar 8, 2017.

  1. Crimson Glory TMMAC

    Crimson Glory
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    So, I've heard some pretty conflicting reports on this.

    Some say lifting weights just slows you down and limits flexibility. That calisthenics are the way to go.

    Others think lifting weights can only make you faster, stronger and a better all around boxer(NFL athletes obviously lift a fair amount of weight and they're some of the most athletic guys in the world, but obviously lack endurance training. But if you have guys running 4.4's, jumping 35+ inches into the air and 10+ inches broad, it's easy to see how that could translate into a great boxer)

    The truth obviously lies somewhere in the middle right? You need a certain amount of strength/resistance training as well as endurance training to reach your genetic potential.

    My question is, what kind of weight lifting workouts works best for speed, endurance, explosiveness etc all of the kinds of things that can translate to Boxing training.

    Just as a side note, I'm well aware that training pure Boxing should be number one, I'm only asking what are the best workouts that will only benefit(and not hinder) your ability as a Boxer? Should I see what the best in the NFL do or should I just stick with the old school Boxing mentality?
     
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  2. Vhagar Blue Belt

    Vhagar
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    all of this info is readily available from google. all great boxers have a strength training regime. work on the major lifts, get lots of rest, focus on boxing.
     
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  3. panamaican Senior Moderator

    panamaican
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    Have to agree with the above. No matter what strength routine you choose, implement it effectively and get lots of rest. Weight lifting won't make you slow. Being tired from weight lifting will.

    Nor does weight lifting limit flexibility, done properly it can actually enhance it by strengthening weak muscles that are actually limiting your flexibility.
     
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  4. Ilk Orange Belt

    Ilk
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    Training methods have changed big time. Weight lifting is essential. Vlad Klitchko for example plays a lot of table tenis as there is tons of hip rotation and helps reflexes. Jones for example does not spar but does pad work. A lot of top kick boxers do not spar but spend tons of time on partner drills. I know two wrestling coaches who one of them thinks weight lifting sux the other one advices training like an olympic lifter. One of them is coaching a youth national team the other has been 2nd at an EU cup for wrestling.

    Honestly train your sport and experiment with training methods and listen to your body.
     
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  5. rmongler Brown Belt

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    If you train with slow movements, you will compete with slow movements.

    There is a video floating around on youtube showing a snapshot of the Iowa Hawkeye wrestling team's conditioning program, and one thing people often comment on is how so many guys are slamming out 'cheat reps' on their sets, like hopping and dropping while doing standing cleans to get the bar up faster and lower the range of motion.

    The funny thing is though, 'cheating' on movements is exactly how you would be doing it in a live match; those whole body 'cheats' to make it easier to move an object around are exactly what good technique is supposed to do.


    Edit: found the vid.

     
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    Last edited: Mar 13, 2017
  6. guard_passer Double Yellow Card

    guard_passer
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    everyone is different, see what works best for you. I prefer bodyweight for my upper body(pull/chinups, pushups, dips) and weights for the lower (squats/deadlifts). Overall I think functional training and cardio are more important
     
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  7. a guy Black Belt

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    What you should do is assess (or have a professional assess) your strengths and weaknesses as an athlete, then develop a program meant to eliminate those weaknesses and enhance those strengths in the most efficient manner possible.

    So lifting weights can be used for different things like maximal strength, muscular endurance and power. If you need to improve one or all of those things, it will be beneficial for you to implement a weight lifting routine that targets them. Generally, maximal strength builds a very good base to develop other attributes like speed, power, balance and endurance. However, for boxing specifically, maximal strength hits diminishing returns pretty quickly. So if you've never done anything to improve your strength, you'll absolutely benefit from going through a strength phase which will involve lifting heavy weights in the 1-5 rep range. You shouldn't be trying to work up to a 700 pound deadlift or anything crazy, but building a solid strength base will not only help you improve the attributes I mentioned, it'll make you less prone to injury and more flexible if you train correctly. You also won't put on a ton of weight if you control your diet. Note that you don't have to do this with weights. It's entirely possible to build strength with body weight exercises, it's just more difficult to program correctly and find variations of exercises with the correct resistance--plus your legs will get too strong to improve with just bodyweight pretty quickly.

    Maybe you're already pretty strong, but not that fast. In that case you would lower the weights and lift them as explosively as possible. This would be a good time to incorporate olympic lifts into your program. You'll develop power this way, but it isn't the only way. You can also do that with jumps, medicine ball throws, hill sprints and things like that.

    If you need to develop balance that's where bodyweight can really come in handy, though you can also do unilateral work like bulgarian split squats to improve balance while using weights.

    Again, what it really comes down to is figuring out which attributes you need to improve then using the best exercises available to do so. It's kind of like when people worry about whether they should run long distance or sprints for cardio, or just do all sport specific work. You should do all of them, but in differing amounts depending on you personally. It's not always a good idea to look at what a pro athlete is doing because you have no idea what attributes he's working with. For example, a guy who tells you not to lift weights might have done physical labor his entire life and built strength that way, so lifting weights won't do much for him. A guy who already has a great aerobic base because he rode his bike everywhere everyday growing up won't benefit as much from long distance running as from sprinting. It all needs to be tailored to your individual athletic history, genetics and fighting style.
     
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  8. Sano Brown Belt

    Sano
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    Exactly right.
     
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  9. tdluxon Black Belt

    tdluxon
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    These kind of workouts are getting popular with football players also who are looking to build explosive strength. Seems to be effective.

    My only concern would be that if someone is doing this kind of lifting with bad technique/form and/or too much weight, it seems like it could lead to an injury.
     
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  10. TroldeAnsigt White Belt

    TroldeAnsigt
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    There is a difference between explosive lifting and shitty lifts with bad form.
    The wrestling team video is scary to look at honestly. "Cheating" with so much weight on your head is never a good idea.
    And the whole argument "this is like how you fight" is bullshit. Most of training is not supposed to be like you fight. Sparring is often not how you fight. Pads are not how you fight. That is technique.
    Weight lifting is not about fighting, it's about working your muscles and making your body fit. You cannot compare any lifting movements to a fight scenario, since you will never deadlift a guy off the floor.
    Lift with good form and lift consistently. Anything else is an injury waiting to happen or a waste of time.
     
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  11. tdluxon Black Belt

    tdluxon
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    When I started seeing these kind of workouts and people jerking, yanking and throwing around weight like that my first thought was that it looked like an injury waiting to happen. To me it seems like it should only be done by someone with a lot of lifting experience, with very low weight, and under the supervision of someone who knows what they are doing
     
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  12. TeTe Keeping the inmates in line

    TeTe
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    My trainer used to lift a lot, in fact I think he liked it more than boxing. He is 5'10" 195 lbs.

    He told me that lifting is fine and long as you are doing explosive exercises, typically of the compound variety.... as opposed to body building and doing isolation exercises.

    He had me do a lot of rows, dips, squats, deadlifts and various core exercises. I put in a lot of time in the weight room keeping these exercises in mind and it's done nothing but help. I don't mind being a short, ripped guy in my weight class either. In fact, I was probably one of the shortest (5'10") in the 178 class. Well at least I used to be when I competed. Now I'm around 185 since I spend more time lifting then training.
     
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  13. freaky Black Belt

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    I think TS is talking about lifting big weights like normal people or bodybuilders. The myth is you do not want big muscles cuz it will slow you down and gas you out faster.

    That's why most strikers are not big bulky guys. You have Brock Lesnar who is a wrestler not a striker. Mike Tyson seems to be exception to the rule.

    I don't know if it slows you down or not.
     
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  14. a guy Black Belt

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    This is bro science that ignores the entire point of the general preparation phase.
     
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  15. a guy Black Belt

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    Well said. People get so obsessed with sport specific training that they start rationalizing stuff like this. GPP isn't supposed to be sport specific.
     
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  16. a guy Black Belt

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    Even then you have to ask what exactly does lifting like that accomplish, and is there a better way to accomplish it? (There is)
     
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  17. Ilk Orange Belt

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    Dont be shy and share the way.
     
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  18. a guy Black Belt

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    Assuming you're talking about learning to use "cheats" to move weight, you learn that by actually wrestling. The point of lifting is to build strength and power. The point of technique training is to apply that strength and power to your sport. This isn't anything particularly insightful I'm saying BTW. This is basic periodization.
     
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  19. MaxMMA Blue Belt

    MaxMMA
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    I get so tired of people putting so much emphasis on S&C. Lifting weights does what exactly? makes you stronger... for lifting a bar over your head/over your chest. What does working cardio do? give you greater endurance... for running/swimming/cycling.

    "Well I want to be stronger and have better endurance for boxing!!!"

    Shadow boxing, bag work, jumping rope, body hardening, etc... BOXING. These are the S&C routines you need to focus on to develop strength and endurance for boxing.
     
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  20. a guy Black Belt

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    Literally every single sport does GPP work. Sport specific work is important, but if you think improving things like maximal strength and aerobic endurance through S&C doesn't translate into boxing you're simply uneducated. Unless you think pro boxers are throwing money away on S&C coaches for the fun of it.
     
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