Lets talk about "recomping"

[irollnaked]

I've been bulking and cutting my whole life but I've never really tried "recomping". What's the overall consensus about it and is it effective? Anyone here have success with it?

 

[Seriously-Dead]

I've been recomping for a long ass time, floating around 160 for the last three years. I didn't have much success at first, mainly because my training wasn't consistent enough. But I've recently increased the frequency that I train (to essentially every day) and the results have been great in these last few months. It's definitely possible, but I think the focus needs to be placed mostly on training properly and frequently as opposed to micro-managing your diet.

 

[EL CORINTHIAN]

Let's assume you are not a beginner and also not on gear because for those people it's definetley possible. For everyone else it's going to be alot harder and take a much longer time but it still is possible. I sound like a broken record on the diet forums but as supplements get better it becomes more and more likely that recomping is a viable option for naturals. ARA (arachidonic acid) for example has apparently has been used successfully in natty recomping stacks along with foreskolin. So generally speaking it used to be considered a fool's errand but as time goes on it is becoming a legitamite alternative to cutting and bulking.

 

[Seriously-Dead]

Let's assume you are not a beginner and also not on gear because for those people it's definetley possible. For everyone else it's going to be alot harder and take a much longer time but it still is possible. I sound like a broken record on the diet forums but as supplements get better it becomes more and more likely that recomping is a viable option for naturals. ARA (arachidonic acid) for example has apparently has been used successfully in natty recomping stacks along with foreskolin. So generally speaking it used to be considered a fool's errand but as time goes on it is becoming a legitamite alternative to cutting and bulking.

If you actually believe you need supplements like this for success, your training needs improvement.

 

[EL CORINTHIAN]

If you actually believe you need supplements like this for success, your training needs improvement.

You seem to have misinterpreted my post. I'm not saying it's needed for "success" but as a natural where all variables are optimal it may be necessary when we are talking about recomping. Assuming your training is optimized it will come down to your diet and not training as you said. And I'm not talking about some crappy cheap, highly bull shit markets supplements. These are supplements with science backing them and many logs out there to prove their claims. The general consensus on recomping as a natty isn't all that exciting but with the introduction of new muscle builders out there it's becoming possible.

 

[Seriously-Dead]

You seem to have misinterpreted my post. I'm not saying it's needed for "success" but as a natural where all variables are optimal it may be necessary when we are talking about recomping. Assuming your training is optimized it will come down to your diet and not training as you said. And I'm not talking about some crappy cheap, highly bull shit markets supplements. These are supplements with science backing them and many logs out there to prove their claims. The general consensus on recomping as a natty isn't all that exciting but with the introduction of new muscle builders out there it's becoming possible.

I'll say it again, if you think you need supplements for a successful recomp, you're wrong and your training needs improvement.

I've been doing it without any supplements, I'm far from a genetic outlier, not on steroids, not a beginner, and don't really do anything special with my diet. It mainly comes down to training frequency and training properly. Took me a while to figure out how to do it, but the first step is committing to training 6-7 days per week.

 

[EL CORINTHIAN]

I'll say it again, if you think you need supplements for a successful recomp, you're wrong and your training needs improvement.

I've been doing it without any supplements, I'm far from a genetic outlier, not on steroids, not a beginner, and don't really do anything special with my diet. It mainly comes down to training frequency and training properly. Took me a while to figure out how to do it, but the first step is committing to training 6-7 days per week.

What level you happen to be at is dictated by the numbers you happen to be throwing around and not necessarily how long you have been at it. Im not saying your numbers aren't respectable (which you have no provided) but the closer you are to that threshold the more specialised your nutrition and training will be. Nutritient timing for instance, to a beginner or early intermediate takes a back seat to over all adherence in building muscle but for someone who is more advanced it can be crucial. I mean I'm happy that your progressing but for many people recomping simply isn't the most efficient path and is not for everyone.

Also you need to stop framing my posts as if I'm saying supplementation is the key to success for anything. And when your training is dialed in (which is something we are assuming by not being a beginner) than nutrition>training when it comes to recomping. I'll put it this way......if you ran a few cycles of ARA here over your 3 year journey you WOULD be a bit further in terms of progress. But you seem to think im down playing the other variables for what ever reason. It's 2016 we have seen the new wave of muscle builders be put through the trails and they simply work whether you want to beleive it or not. This will make a huge difference when everything else is accounted for.

 

[Badger67]

Secular is secular.

 

[Seriously-Dead]

You keep pimping ARA, and though it may be good for bodybuilding, it's probably one of the worst supplements you can take for an extended period of time since it is a major precursor of lipid peroxidation and compounds in your system over time. Having some basic understanding of physiology can go a long way when safely selecting supplements (or when choosing to steer clear of them). Increasing tissue unsaturation is not really a good idea, and enhancing tissue saturation is an idea that unites disparate approaches to nutrition, such as ketosis and low-fat diets, by explaining how these opposing strategies can have the similar physiological benefits (both strategies increase tissue saturation).

Moreover, it's not a good idea to come into a thread about something like recomping, adding nothing to the discussion other than "hey with these new supplements it might be possible". It doesn't really add much to the discussion.

As if recomping is something new. Take a look at greek/roman statues that were based off of real live people and ask yourself if it's reasonable to assume that they also believed in the cycle of bulking/cutting that's only been popularized and in use since the 1970s. Or ask yourself if they had any particular tricks in nutrition they used to get so lean. Rather, what's more well known is that they (and thousands of different athletes after them) just trained their bodies with religious devotion - no different than modern athletes who often don't employ any specialized nutrition strategies (e.g. the Junior Chinese weightlifting team is a great example).

 

[EL CORINTHIAN]

You keep pimping ARA, and though it may be good for bodybuilding, it's probably one of the worst supplements you can take for an extended period of time since it is a major precursor of lipid peroxidation and compounds in your system over time. Having some basic understanding of physiology can go a long way when safely selecting supplements (or when choosing to steer clear of them). Increasing tissue unsaturation is not really a good idea, and enhancing tissue saturation is an idea that unites disparate approaches to nutrition, such as ketosis and low-fat diets, by explaining how these opposing strategies can have the similar physiological benefits (both strategies increase tissue saturation).

Moreover, it's not a good idea to come into a thread about something like recomping, adding nothing to the discussion other than "hey with these new supplements it might be possible". It doesn't really add much to the discussion.

As if recomping is something new. Take a look at greek/roman statues that were based off of real live people and ask yourself if it's reasonable to assume that they also believed in the cycle of bulking/cutting that's only been popularized and in use since the 1970s. Or ask yourself if they had any particular tricks in nutrition they used to get so lean. Rather, what's more well known is that they (and thousands of different athletes after them) just trained their bodies with religious devotion - no different than modern athletes who often don't employ any specialized nutrition strategies (e.g. the Junior Chinese weightlifting team is a great example).

ARA is something you cycle and wouldn't need to take it for an extended period of time. I'm not sure what your gripe is with me saying any of this, the guy asked what the general consensus was on recomping and I said it wasn't all that positive which is true if you have spent any meaningful time looking at people's experiences. Can it be done? Of course it can no one is saying its impossible but it's simply not as effective as we all want it to be, however with the introduction of these new muscle builders it can optimize the experience which Is a fact that seems to puzzle you.

And I'm not adding to the discussion? Dude you referencing Idealized Greek statues and keep talking about your training for recomping . There is a reason we are in the dietary forum. The TS is smart enough to understand the fact that it has more to do with what you put in your mouth rather than what you are lifting. Again not down playing the other variables but nutrition>training when it comes to recomping. Also please don't bring the Chinese junior Olympic team into this conversation as if average people are going to give up their entire lives to train the way they do, I used to be an Olympic weightlifter in my younger years and trust me unless your getting paid to lift no one with even a smidgen of responsibility is going to train like them in the pursuit of recomping.

Anyways there are studies you can look up and numerous logs concerning ara or other muscle builders to prove their claims. You would have to be a fool not to try these things out if recomping is indeed something you want. But I guess we can all look towards ancient statues and train 7 days a week if that doesn't pan out right?

 

[Seriously-Dead]

Okay, lets start with ARA and it's plethora of research. Examine has only about 3 studies on ARA, and they show that when paired with exercise there's no impact on body composition. I've managed to find one other study on ARA in humans, which did show an effect, but it's downplayed by the fact that in response to (likely a subpar training program) that the control group did not show any significant gains in lean mass, strength, or power over 8 weeks. Not exactly solid proof of efficacy.

https://examine.com/supplements/arachidonic-acid/
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0155153

I've had the good fortune of getting to handle the data on some studies in both nutrition and exercise science. In the few studies I've gotten to pick at the hard data that involved measuring body composition, only studies on exercise ever show some participants actually recomping (as in gaining lean mass and losing fat - and you actually see it more often than you'd think). I, nor have anyone I've worked with, have ever seen the same thing in a nutrition study. You'll see people lose fat with a diet, and that's about it - at best they retain lean mass, never gain it.

This makes sense, because exercise is the only mechanism that we know of that stimulates opposing pathways (both catabolic and anabolic). You see the catabolic hormonal and intracellular cascades (e.g. cortisol -> FFA release -> AMPk upregulation -> PGC-a1 upregulation -> enhanced beta-oxidation) when exercising, and the enhanced anabolic hormonal and intracellular cascades upon recovery (e.g. testosterone -> enhanced glucose regulation -> enhanced protein synthesis -> mitochondrial proliferation -> muscle fiber growth). Nutrition can't do this in any way, and at best it simply facilitates the second (anabolic) response. So if you want to stimulate both pathways more, how can you do it? Exercising more. Not rocket science. Train hard, eat as needed, sleep, and train again.

People like to think it takes micro-managing your diet to have any kind of success, but it really doesn't. The returns quickly diminish beyond a point of covering the basics (sufficient calories, protein, carbs, micronutrients). Most people that aren't drastically overweight would be better off putting their time and energy into just training more often and training smarter if they want to look better, and especially if they want to recomp. The returns on exercise (especially if you expand into other arenas - like endurance training, HIIT, BB, weightlifting, gymnastics - don't diminish at the rate they do with nutrition, not even close. And the reasoning makes good physiological sense, because expanding your fitness through multiple modalities leads to multiple physiological adaptations, whereas your diet (once the basics are covered) really can't elicit unique adaptations all that much.