Let's talk about a potential McGregor vs Holloway rematch

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by AndyMaBobs, Dec 4, 2017.

  1. AndyMaBobs Purple Belt

    AndyMaBobs
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    I'm not claiming that this fight will ever happen, or that we will ever see McGregor fight again, but I think this is the most interesting rematch from him. Currently the first McGregor/Holloway fight is the only fight in the UFC between two people who would both go on to become the featherweight champion, and both defeat Jose Aldo.

    While I would make the argument Holloway is the more accomplished featherweight, McGregor does currently hold the win over him. What makes a rematch very interesting to me is the fact that Holloway has changed so much as a fighter and now seems to have become the sort of fighter that excels against McGregor, a relentless body snatcher who can make McGregor gas.

    While I'm not sure McGregor could ever make featherweight again, I'm interested to hear how you guys think they would match up now, a few years past their original fight. While I think I favor McGregor in the rematch I think that Holloway has shown great improvements, whereas McGregor and his camp don't seem to be learning how to deal with body punches any better.

    What are your guys thoughts, and who do you think you'd favour if the two fought again?
     
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  2. Higus Silver Belt

    Higus
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    It would be a great match up. I don't think McGoat is going back to FW, but if he did, I like Holloway in the rematch, especially a 5 rounder.
     
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  3. AndyMaBobs Purple Belt

    AndyMaBobs
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    I was thinking that McGregor is definitely better for cardio than he was in the past, but even with a minimal weight cut he's not great at it, so I can easily see him gassing out at featherweight.
     
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  4. ctrlaltdelete Purple Belt

    ctrlaltdelete
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    gonna have an unpopular opinion here but

    it seems to me like being a great MMA fighter is turning into being durable. alvarez v gaethe, overeem's execution, aldo v holloway.

    its part of the Just Bleed culture ( just bleed gods bless ) but i feel like its being put before finess.. if you can understand what i am getting at.
     
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  5. fluffball Brown Belt

    fluffball
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    Holloway ate a lot of flush punches from Aldo, although that's more complicated than it sounds though, since it's hard to tell how hard he was actually getting hit; it clearly did not phase Max at all. Aldo's bizarrely bad punching technique may have contributed to that.

    I guess it would go just like every other CM fight: Can you make it out of the first round, and then the longer it goes the worse it gets for CM. Max is the "better" fighter, but it doesn't mean anything if you're unconscious within 30 seconds.
     
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  6. aerius Brown Belt

    aerius
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    I'd have to disagree with that. Holloway was rarely hit clean until the end of the fight when Aldo was completely gassed out, up until then Max was rolling, blocking, or fading nearly all the punches thrown his way. The uppercut combo at the end of round 1, another combo in the middle of round 2, and the elbow in round 3 were about the only shots that landed clean until Holloway cranked it up to close out the fight. And even then, Holloway didn't get hit clean all that many times, he was still blocking, slipping, and rolling with the punches coming back at him while keeping the pressure on Aldo and drowning him with volume.

    IMO Conor gets massacred in a rematch, Holloway's distance control, footwork, and defence are seriously underrated. Holloway isn't going to blindly jump the gap or over-extend himself and leave his head out on a platter for Conor. Combined with his defence & durability and it's highly unlikely that Conor can score the KO, and with 5 rounds to bang the body along with his excellent pressure game and good ring cutting footwork, there's no place for Conor to run once he's out of gas. I think it ends the same way as the Aldo fight, the only question is which round.
     
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  7. fluffball Brown Belt

    fluffball
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    That's kind of what I meant by 'it's more complicated'. Aldo landed a lot of "power" punches but I don't think they were good enough technique to have jarred Max. Nearly nothing Aldo landed appeared damaging. I just wonder if Max was intentionally sort of wading through because he knew they couldn't land in a dangerous manner or if he could get caught by CM.
     
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  8. MilesP4P White Belt

    MilesP4P
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    I am the furthest things from a Connor fan, especially considering his actions at the last bellator. But i find it hard to believe he would lose to Max.
    I feel as if Max still wouldn't have an answer for the hand traps Connor uses against orthodox stanced fighters to set up his favorite counter punch.
    Holloway relies heavily on his feet to get away from punches and he was barley able to use his footwork to evade punches against Aldo this past weeked.
    The punches Aldo threw just barley grazed him or missed him and with Connors longer reach I think instead of grazing him Connors punches will land.
    I think if they had a rematch it would play out the same UNLESS Max took Connor down.
     
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  9. AndyMaBobs Purple Belt

    AndyMaBobs
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    I should point out that Max's stance switches and distancing are lot better now than when he first fought Conor, keep in mind when Holloway was younger he would just brawl. And you say he was barely able to use his footwork to evade Aldo, but that's not really true, he only really got hit clean twice.
     
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  10. Frode Falch Gold Belt

    Frode Falch
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    A very young Max lost to a light and agile bouncy conor mcgregor. Light on his feet, alot of dynamic footwork. Jumping kicks.

    Conor post two serious knee injuries, two loss by dominant beat down..

    He is flatfooted and slow compared to his FW run up to the tittelshot. He got a nasty left cross and hook.

    But max today would put conor trough the cardio meat grinder that is his style.

    Conor would fade in the third round. And ho down in round 3 or 4

    It would look very much like Nick Diaz against frank shamrock
     
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  11. AndyMaBobs Purple Belt

    AndyMaBobs
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    You think Conor is more flat footed now? How comes?

    I'm inclined to think you're probably right about your prediction, but you're the first person I've seen say that Conor is physically slowing down
     
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  12. biscuitsbrah Black Belt

    biscuitsbrah
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    Conor by decision. Easily wins the first 2, gets destroyed in the 3rd, barely wins the 4th, and loses the 5th.

    The way I see it is that Max has the ability to put Conor away in the later rounds, while I cant see McGregor ever finishing Holloway.
     
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  13. Frode Falch Gold Belt

    Frode Falch
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    Compare his light on the feet footwork in his run up to aldo. Watch how he moves in both Diaz fights and even his flawless beatdown on Eddie.

    He still got crazy good hands (for mma).. But his creative footwork and playfull kicking is gone
     
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  14. AndyMaBobs Purple Belt

    AndyMaBobs
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    I attributed that to him changing up his gameplan for low kicks in the Diaz rematch, I thought he seemed quite light on his feet against Alvarez. I think I'm gonna have to watch them again and get back to you, I'll be back soon
     
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  15. Azam Purple Belt

    Azam
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    Holloway looked so much better this time than the last time he fought Aldo. He rarely ate punches flush, put pressure on Aldo, kept the pace up and jabbed his socks off.

    I love the way he mixes up head shots with body shots and his distance control & calm while pressuring is excellent to watch. He has a chin on him too.

    Max has grown a hell of a lot since his first fight with McGregor. I mean they fought nearly 4 years ago. Max has come a long way since then - 12 winning streak speaks volumes to his growth.

    Of course McGregor has also grown from 4 years ago too.

    BUT - I think Holloway has grown much more. He now has a much more versatile range of techniques which he applies very well, his distance control has improved significantly, his cardio/conditioning has grown - he's almost a completely different fighter than 4 years ago.

    McGregor on the other hand whilst having improved - hasn't really improved to the same degree I feel. I mean he still has the same cardio/conditioning issues he had 4 years ago, his technique/shot selection is almost exactly the same (he hasn't really added anything new to his game), his boxing ability ability is a bit better. The greatest growth for McGregor has been imho his takedown defense & his ability to stay on his feet. He hasn't really grown to the same extent and in the areas Holloway has in all honesty.

    I think the reason why Holloway is much more improved in comparison to McGregor - is because he's been in the fire against quality opposition much longer than McGregor. The old adage that adversity breeds excellence is very well founded.

    McGregor has had a much easier route to each title in comparison to Holloway. He got an instant shot at the lightweight title and only really had to beat Mendes to get at Aldo. In comparison Holloway has literally gone through nearly every killer in the featherweight division in his bid to get the title. I can only really think of Edgar & Yair that's left for him.

    I think it shows the advantages & disadvantages of showmanship. Showmanship can get you results much quicker & money in the back but at the expense of improvement. Whereas going through top of the food chain one by one - doesn't really pay or get you results quickly but improves you in a way that can't be understated.


    I think it would be a competitive fight - Holloway vs McGregor. But I think McGregor will be in for a very rude awakening with Holloway for the reasons stated above. I feel like McGregor has stagnated by not throwing himself into the fire often enough against top tier competition. Over-confidence is a killer of careers in this sport and I feel like everyone has one up'd themselves because of guys like McGregor whereas he has been coasting and taking fights that make him bank but don't necessarily challenge him.

    That's if he comes backs to begin with...
     
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  16. AndyMaBobs Purple Belt

    AndyMaBobs
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    The exact score of the Diaz fight :p

    Mind you, with the pace Holloway keeps, I could see him stopping McGregor in the 4th. I'm not completely convinced that he will be there for McGregor to punch, the more I think about it the more I can see him making McGregor hit the air.
     
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    Last edited: Dec 5, 2017
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  17. AndyMaBobs Purple Belt

    AndyMaBobs
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    Yeah, I think that the Conor McGregor that beat Ivan Buchinger is more or less the Conor we see for the rest of his career with just a few more kicks to allow him to close the distance. I think he's still pretty poor on the front foot and although other posters have argued against that, I've never really heard an argument that compelled me to think I was wrong in that assessment.

    I think your assessment is pretty much spot on. Even their first fight was competitive, a lot of guys will try to claim that Conor 'dominated' Holloway but that's really not true.

    Someone on reddit described Holloway as 'Diaz with a brain' and I think that comparison is fairly apt.
     
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  18. aerius Brown Belt

    aerius
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    His light bouncy footwork was already on the way out in the Mendes fight, he was no longer leaping in & out with punches & kicks the way he was in his previous fights. He'd traded all that jumping in & out of range for a more grounded style, and after the Aldo fight he continued to pare down his kicks & footwork. He's removed the flashy stuff from his game and settled on a more efficient style that's more focused on his key strikes.

    They both have tons of cardio and toughness but in addition to fighting smarter, Holloway has a far better skill set than Diaz. If Diaz had Max's footwork & distance management, that alone would be enough to let him trash McGregor again in the rematch. Think of all the times that Conor ran away to reset when he was in trouble, there's no way he could do that without being punished badly by anyone with decent pressuring footwork. Try that against Holloway and he's going to be right in your face beating on you the whole time while forcing you into the fence where he can trap you and beat you some more.
     
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  19. AndyMaBobs Purple Belt

    AndyMaBobs
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    Do you think that he's traded it for strategic reasons, or do you think maybe as he's getting older and had those knee injuries he can't quite bounce like he used to.

    I think you're right about Max too, his performance against Cub is a favourite of mine, I'd argue that Cub has better movement and balance than McGregor, Cub is so fluid and so stable at all times but Holloway made him look pretty rough.
     
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  20. WildBoyDan We are here for a good time not a long time.

    WildBoyDan
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    Holloway is a bigger weightcutter than mcgregor ever was.

    I bet holloway walks into the octagon at FW the same weight Conor does at LW.

    People forget how good conor os just because he hasn't fought in a while.

    Conor is am excellent mma fighter amd he would dispose of max easily.

    Look at tha alvarez v gaethje fight.. everyone thought gaethje was the next big thing amd alvarez made him look like an amateur, mcgregor did that to alvarez.
     
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