LETO vs. LEDGER. Why Heath's Joker was so special

[Thrawn33]

Nicholson was a damn fine Joker dude. I was kind of in your camp for a while but rewatching it, he captured a lot of the humanity and somberness of the Joker. The Joker is supposed to be somewhat of a tragic character, this is a focal point in a lot of the best Batman canon. He cries, moans,complains and gets overwhelmed at times. That wasn't really Jack's joker, but he had a more manic, human energy.

Not that I think it's a superior performance, but I think Heath and Jack played their roles almost equally well. If you get me.

A better debate would be HL Joker vs JN Joker.

Hell I think Romero was better than Leto.

 

[Pixelated Porn]

The guy's prep and performances are legit, but there's no point talking about how great the performance was if it isn't there in the final cut. Time to just cut his losses and call it a lesson learned, even if it's true that the editing room was what robbed him of his glory.

That and some of his antics might have made it harder for his colleagues to do their jobs. Reminds me of Brett Favre sticking dead turkeys in his teammates' lockers and shit.

hey, hey, hey, I had sex with most of those turkeys.

Call me an asshole but I liked Leto's Joker. He had dat element of glamour and excess and greed that sold him as a gang leader, whereas Ledger was just some creepy loner whose cronies just grew on trees or whatever. Not to say Leto didn't have moments that almost ruined the character and had me cringing hard.

Yes, fruits grow on trees.

 

[blaseblah]

I haven't seen Suicide Squad but just from looks, Ledger's Joker is more intimidating. He looks like a homeless mental patient that could snap at you at any second. Leto's Joker looks like he's going to a Halloween party.

Meh, comic book Joker looks like he's going to a Halloween party as well. Ledger was just a better villain, period. Leto's Joker wasn't even a villain, he was the romantic side interest.

 

[AGGAMEMNON66]

Haven't seen Suicide squad yet but Heaths Joker couldn't hold Nicholson's joker fucking jockstrap. I recently watch dark knight again and Nicholson's joker had far more range.

 

[Mike]

I love Ledger's performance but I don't find it very canon.

Well the whole objective of the Nolan films was to take these fantastical characters and move them into a more realistic setting, very similar to the original run of the ultimates.



Imo when you get to the essence of the Joker, he's a guy that realizes the entire world is insane. All the rules and hierarchies and the entire structure of it is insane, it's just organized insanity. We're all playing house in this world pretending to be rational and logical.


He loathes power structures and order, and sees reliance on them, and the belief that they keep you safe, as weakness.



The way he makes the criminals think they need to rely on him, that they are on the same team against authority, is classic joker. He doesn't want to operate as part of the counterculture within the system, or overthrow one system and replace it with another.



He wants to burn down all systems, eliminate all order, he's the ultimate anarchist. That's what the scene with him burning the money represented, the other criminals never saw him coming because he doesn't care about money or power.



The same with the scene with Michael Caine describing burning down the forest to get the guy they were after. When your enemy doesn't have rules, doesn't believe in honor or fairness or any rules of combat, you have to abandon your sense of honor too, and sink to their level to win.



The elements of the joker forming alliances and violently breaking them, and how do you beat the joker without becoming the joker, are strong themes in most of his major appearances in comics and the animated universe.

 

[FyrFytr998]

Agreed.

Let's look at the different Jokers and the time they inhabited.

Romero was meant to be a full on campy clown caricature like the early comics. Plus it was TV back in the stricter times of the FCC.

Nicholson was just a "name" big budget version of Romero's character with some edginess thrown in for the big screen debut. 90's cinema was still campy when it came to action films, so the performance was appropriate.

Ledger was given Carte Blanche to do what he pleased with the character. Nolan had no qualms about breaking canon, because there was no DCCU at the time. Nolan's Batman movies did it's best to channel Frank Miller's Batman and Daredevil runs in look and feel to me. And since everyone was expecting another Nicholson type Joker, everyone was surprised and taken aback by Ledger's take on the character.

Leto on the other hand was led astray. He was told to give us something new for this time and age of "Gangsta YOLO Swag". And for the most part he did. Only no one really knows to what extent, because the director chopped the majority of his work to the cutting room floor. And what was put in the film was rushed and choppy. The love angle was kinda stupid, but they didn't really show how smart he was, because the scenes were cobbled together so fast.

So honestly, I give Leto a pass until he gets a proper movie under his version of the Joker. And with a director who knows what the fuck he is doing. Because I think if he had someone like Nolan or the Russo brothers directing him, it would have been something a whole lot better.

 

[KnightTemplar]

Agreed.

Let's look at the different Jokers and the time they inhabited.

Romero was meant to be a full on campy clown caricature like the early comics. Plus it was TV back in the stricter times of the FCC.

Nicholson was just a "name" big budget version of Romero's character with some edginess thrown in for the big screen debut. 90's cinema was still campy when it came to action films, so the performance was appropriate.

Ledger was given Carte Blanche to do what he pleased with the character. Nolan had no qualms about breaking canon, because there was no DCCU at the time. Nolan's Batman movies did it's best to channel Frank Miller's Batman and Daredevil runs in look and feel to me. And since everyone was expecting another Nicholson type Joker, everyone was surprised and taken aback by Ledger's take on the character.

Leto on the other hand was led astray. He was told to give us something new for this time and age of "Gangsta YOLO Swag". And for the most part he did. Only no one really knows to what extent, because the director chopped the majority of his work to the cutting room floor. And what was put in the film was rushed and choppy. The love angle was kinda stupid, but they didn't really show how smart he was, because the scenes were cobbled together so fast.

So honestly, I give Leto a pass until he gets a proper movie under his version of the Joker. And with a director who knows what the fuck he is doing. Because I think if he had someone like Nolan or the Russo brothers directing him, it would have been something a whole lot better.

 

[Superbad]

I've watched TDK a couple dozen tmes or so. It has flaws for sure, but I can watch it over and over because of Ledgers performance. He was that damn good.

A few weeks ago the original Batman was on. I was in highschool when it came out. I remember the prince song and video, how surprised everyone was Keaton fix so good as Batman. How JN nailed the joker. But it hasn't aged well. And I never felt like watching it over and over even back then.

I agree with the people that thought Leto was one of the better parts of SS. And his performance would have only been improved with better editing etc. Hopefully he gets a chance in another movie. For now, Ledger's Joker>>>>> all other Joker's.

 

[shamaniac]

because Ledger died and thats why

both performances suck

 

[bubbleboyjones]

Haven't seen Suicide squad yet but Heaths Joker couldn't hold Nicholson's joker fucking jockstrap. I recently watch dark knight again and Nicholson's joker had far more range.

Jesus christ.....people shitting on Ledger for having similar mannerisms to Tom Waits yet Jack Nicholson's version of the joker was Jack Nicholson with face paint.

 

[Cazador]

I liked Ledger's portrayal because, as anarchistic and unpredictable as he carried himself, deep underneath there was the suggestion that everything he did was calculated. And that, to me, is more terrifying than anything.

Plus all his mannerisms and facial tics were on point. Not to mention he was fucking funny while still trying to deliver his message to the good guys and the people of Gotham.

A better class of criminal indeed. All hail the Clown Prince of Crime.

Indeed it was.

 

[ehtheist]

Meh, Leto will be lucky if he comes out as the #3 Joker as portrayed on screen, not #1. He'd better start method acting some sort of thespian steroid if he wants to even break into the #2 spot. This guy's act is more PR than inspired acting - with a huge number of people expecting him to be awesome and now thinking he's mediocre, versus Ledger's Joker where most thought he was going to tank it and ended up loving him. Maybe if a few more interviews come out about how he delivered people dead animals, we'll understand his genius better, eh?

My prediction? When Leto has finished his time as Joker, his performances won't be fit to wipe the ass of Ledger's.

That being said... I enjoyed it well enough. He really wasn't bad - just incredibly far from great.

 

[BoxingFan123]

I'm not a huge fan of Nicholson's interpretation either. Batman Returns is still the quintessential Batman live action movie in my eyes.

 

[KnightTemplar]

Jared Leto's constant interviews of how "method" he went to portray the Joker gave me major douche chills. So I'm glad he only ended up getting 10 mins of screen time in that beautiful disaster of a movie.

It reminded me of the story about Marathon Man. Dustin Hoffman decided he would go without sleep for several days to help him get into the mindset of his character, who had been tortured and was being hunted by Nazis. Laurence Olivier, his co-star, asked, "Why don't you just try acting, dear boy?"

 

[ClubFoot]

I just watched suicide squad.

What a load of fucking steaming shite.

 

[Fonx]

Heath´s was an agent of chao while Leto was basically in a rom com.

 

[EGarrett]

LOL, this thread ran for days, while apparently no one knows that that's my Youtube channel and I didn't look at Mayberry during that time.

The guy narrating the video completely missed the mark in regards to Ledger's Joker and his interactions with Batman. He was never supposed to bring out a particular "trait" that pays off for Batman. Being merciful didn't benefit Batman or Gotham in any way. The Joker won, essentially. Joker tore the city apart knowing his only threat would never kill him. His reign of terror will forever continue because Batman will never cross that boundary. It stayed in theme of Batman never becoming the villain. Dent proved himself a weaker man by succumbing to the loss he experienced. The love of his life was gone as was half his face. Being righteous never did anything for him. Dent lived long enough to see himself become the villain. Batman avoided crossing that line.

It was a moral victory for Batman while Joker proved why he's Bat's greatest foe. His lack of boundaries combined with his genius intellect proved to almost be too much for Bruce Wayne.

Someone in the comment section said this too. Yes, the Joker did win. He made Batman look bad. But that's not good because Batman is the one you pay to see, and he's the one who will be the focal point of the next movie. You want the good emotions to be tied to him.

 

[minute bull]

It's his birthday tomorrow. Or today, depending if you're going by Australia time.

I always loved how Jack climbed out of the club chair at 1:16:

 

[Goonerview]

Jay Leno was the best

 

[TidWell]

I have never seen that tv show Gotham but isn't their an updated version of Joker on that show is he any good? its a young teen joker or something