Leg locks...The new standard? | Page 2

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Unr8dBJJ, Nov 3, 2017.

  1. PointyShinyBurn Purple Belt

    PointyShinyBurn
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    That's all true, but it's also important not to forget that the mount gets four points in BJJ because of strikes, not submission opportunities. Sometimes what the DDS guys are doing looks like tightened-up Shooto as much as it does BJJ.

    I guess the good ship Fighting Applicability sailed out of Sport BJJ Harbour some years ago now, but these developments do seem to drift them even further apart. Does anyone know if Danaher has said anything on the topic? Especially given he wrote the pretty-much-definitive explanation of the positional hierarchy doctrine in Mastering Jujitsu.
     
    #21
  2. MaxMMA Blue Belt

    MaxMMA
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    Maybe it was just a difference in the training idk, but I was never instructed to not attack subs, regardless of the position I was in and the training we conducted was almost entirely in preparation for MMA. My instructor and many of the fighters in our gym at the time were from the NHB era and they did preach position before submission. Yet we drilled foot locks all time, including sitting back for them in guard, we even drilled springing onto knee bars and toe holds from the N/S position. We just didn't have all the refinement that these top leg lock gurus have.

    Sure we never had a class that taught us in 1 session to latch onto a kimura from anywhere and then try to advance to a finishing position, but we did drill the kimura from every possible position/situation including drilling specifically as a TDD/reversal tool so by the time someone became a blue belt, they multiple ways to use the kimura besides just the traditional guard, or side mount top kimuras.
     
    #22
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2017
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  3. Uchi Mata Gold Belt

    Uchi Mata
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    Maybe we're just talking past each other. You're talking about going for all these submissions, and I'm saying that people aren't thinking of footlocks and kimuras or whatever primarily as submissions anymore, they're thinking about them first as positions with all that means and only then as submissions. So for example, when I've had the chance to go to DDS seminars, while they do talk about finishing you first spend time on positional control in leg entanglements, then you talk about transitions you can make into different entanglements based on how uke defends the position, and only then do you talk about actually finishing the sub. I don't know about you, but when I first learned the kimura I was taught how to get the lock and finish it from a few different positions. What I wasn't taught that you would be now is the notion that the kimura *grip itself* is a position, that while there are times you can finish there are also times when you're use it to transition to the back, or to an arm bar, and that the most important thing is to maintain the grip and keep control of the position through uke's transitions and only finish when you can do so with certainty that you won't lose it. I think the mindset is pretty different than it used to be. Maybe that's just me, but I don't think so.
     
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  4. BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

    BJJ_Rage
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    lister learn from sambo.

    gordon ryan is going to hh all of them, at the same time, get fucking real.
     
    #24
  5. MaxMMA Blue Belt

    MaxMMA
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    Maybe we are, the point I was trying to make is that even though we didn't have the same details from these positions/subs we were still drilling them and back then. Even though our instructors still preached position before submission, that was mostly just something to say to white belts and they still drilled us to seamlessly roll from one position/submission to the next position/submission. To the point that by time a white belt became blue they had multiple techniques to chain off of any position, submission, or situation they may find themselves in.
     
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  6. Submission White Belt

    Submission
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    Uchi, do you advocate that, once you get a kimura grip, you should never let it go and that there's always a way to something better, either take a superior position or finish?
     
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  7. mataleaos Green Belt

    mataleaos
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    You didn't ask me but if I have a kimura grip I see almost no reason to let it go because there's always a sweep, pass, back attack, or another submission right around the corner. Especially without the gi.
     
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  8. The Thrill Blue Belt

    The Thrill
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    im not a big leglock guy at all, in fact i rarely go for them in training unless somebody is just blatantly handing me their foot on a silver platter...but strangely enough, ive had to use my training 4 times in the street in the 10+ years ive been training-one of them was a rear naked choke, but the other three were all footlocks, and i never came close to being hit
     
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  9. Coconutwater Blue Belt

    Coconutwater
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    Well said.

    It’s literally looking at something we’ve all done and recontextualised it.
     
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  10. JustTheTip Green Belt

    JustTheTip
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    This here.
     
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  11. lechien Gold Belt

    lechien
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    At my friend Bjj gym, the white belts only wants to learn heelhooks.

    One of my new students told me that he trained at an mma gym. The taught him heelhookd but he did not even know what a straight ankle lock.

    Small competition organisers are now copying lot of the adcc rules.
     
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  12. BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

    BJJ_Rage
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    White belts should not do Hh, no matter what, not only because they are a danger with them, but it will hinder their development as grapplers immensely
     
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  13. lechien Gold Belt

    lechien
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    Basically at the other gym. Blue belt heelhook the white belts.
     
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  14. BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

    BJJ_Rage
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    Another moron... Blue belts shouldn't either, specially to whitebelts. If they're rolling with a higher belt and the rules are set on before rolling it's ok I would say, let's say the higher belt wants to get some training with Hh, so they both go.. But a blue Hhing. White belt? That's just plain wrong
     
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  15. rmongler Brown Belt

    rmongler
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    Hinder how?

    >uhhh, they won't focus on passing or being on top and stuff...?

    So many bjj players do that already. The Miyaos were poster children of this fact; it wasn't until late brown/blackbelt level that they really started becoming proficient in things besides berimbolo backtakes.
     
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    Last edited: Nov 12, 2017
  16. BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

    BJJ_Rage
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    yes.

    Just becasue there was a berimbolo fad doesnt mean no one will ever focus on that besides to play miyaos game you need to have a certain type of physical attributes. To attack the legs you dont.

    You need to have a certain understanding of grappling in general in order to start attacking the legs, at least I would like my students to have.
     
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  17. lechien Gold Belt

    lechien
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    Well you can blame abcc, dds and ebi for that mentality.

    How can you blame them? ..when you read that a 15 years old is submitng bb with hh.

    Hh is now the st grall.

    Even the latest development for the ibjjf legal stuff like single x guard and straight ankle is very pop ular and people are getting really good at it.

    Never seen such level of efficiency in leg lock and it is due to the latest trend.
     
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  18. rmongler Brown Belt

    rmongler
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    Well for starters...

    Berimbolo never stopped being a fad, we stopped calling it a fad now because everyone knows it, and forms an important part of the game of a significant number of competitors; berimbolo is a 'good, basic, fundamental' move now.

    Secondly, before the berimbolo, it was a 'try to triangle and scissor or hook sweep' fad; bjj players who try to argue against learning leg locks on account of the possibility it could disincentivize playing top for some people have no leg to stand on; that has always been the predominant mode of play in the jiu jitsu universe.
     
    #38
  19. BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

    BJJ_Rage
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    Your confusing learning leg locks with basing your game on them.

    I personally don't all that in my class, eventhough I'm probably the biggest leg lock fan in my country. White belts dropping to ankle locks is a no no my class.
     
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  20. BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

    BJJ_Rage
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    I believe is my responsibility as instructor to guide them, at least till the turn purple or blue....
     
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