Leading German daily fires Cartoonist for criticising Netanyahu.

[Islam Imamate]

Everyone gets a pass. Everyone gets a pass from their allies and condemned by their enemies. You’re just obsessed with Israel, like so many posters here.

China, Saudi Arabia, Ukraine, Turkey... I see a lot more complaints about Israel so I don’t know how they “get a pass” these other human rights abusers don’t get. You think the Palestinians get less support than the Rohingya, Tibetans, Kachins, Congolese, etc.? These are people who are actually undergoing genocides.

I, like the majority of American Jews, don’t support Bibi. I don’t have much opportunity to discuss it though because there aren’t many threads supporting him. There are countless threads like this though, complaining broadly and ignorantly about “The Jews.” You never hear legitimate complaints about Muslim countries dismissed as “Islamophobic?” Really?

Saudi Arabia and Turkey get more heat than Israel does here. Virtually no one defends those countries here while many do defend Israel.

 

[Jesus H. Sherdog]

Saudi Arabia and Turkey get more heat than Israel does here. Virtually no one defends those countries here while many do defend Israel.

I stand corrected, although I was referring to the greater media and political sphere rather than these forums.

Does Israel get a pass? As I said, everyone gets a pass from their allies, everyone gets hell from their enemies. And in my perception Israel’s mistreatment of the Palestinians is in the media, and discussed in the UN, far more often than the abuses in those other nations I named. But it could just be my perception.

 

[Islam Imamate]

I stand corrected, although I was referring to the greater media and political sphere rather than these forums.

Does Israel get a pass? As I said, everyone gets a pass from their allies, everyone gets hell from their enemies. And in my perception Israel’s mistreatment of the Palestinians is in the media, and discussed in the UN, far more often than the abuses in those other nations I named. But it could just be my perception.

I would agree in the wider media Israel gets more attention but part of that is because they are held to a higher standard. They like to brag about being a liberal democracy, if you're going to claim that label then expect the world to hold you to the standards of a liberal democracy. The Saudis make no such claims.

 

[Jesus H. Sherdog]

I would agree in the wider media Israel gets more attention but part of that is because they are held to a higher standard. They like to brag about being a liberal democracy, if you're going to claim that label then expect the world to hold you to the standards of a liberal democracy. The Saudis make no such claims.

Right so they don’t get a pass. Thank you.

 

[trolldum]

That's not what you think it is. German media are not kind to Netanyahu, not at all. Nobody in Western liberal media likes him.

The German media and the demonization of Israel
https://www.jpost.com/Opinion/The-German-media-and-the-demonization-of-Israel-499134

There is no problem for Muslims to organize protests where they are calling for "liberation of Jerusalem" and destruction of Israel.

 

[WTF2008]

Germany is always gonna be the kid in class with his head down because his big brother came through and was an asshole so he has to pay for it.

 

[WTF2008]

Meanwhile, the US gets a pass for taking down an entire race (Native Americans).

 

[Islam Imamate]

Right so they don’t get a pass. Thank you.

Really depends who you talk to. In this case Israel is getting a pass but that's because ze Germans are just too conflicted about criticizing Jews even if its legitimate given their past. And many American right wingers do give Israel a pass and the US government itself provides diplomatic cover for Israel in the international community.

But of course its also true that some people and circles are die hard critics of Israel.

 

[TheGreatA]

I don't know who (critics of Israeli policies) would classify that incident as excusable. There being people who hate Jews does not mean Israel should get a pass for what they do. No one else gets a pass, and there are a heckva lot of people who have undergone genocide and some still go through it.

exceptions prove the rule. there are some antisemitic arabs out there but thats not a prove for something. the problem begins when u call everything anti semitic because of any criticism against israel like the cartoonist.

Wow... Has Merkel publicly condemned the executions-by-sniper being carried out by Israel against unarmed civilians?? Or do only weak belt lashings get her full attention???

Obviously, my original point was that why does Germany act like they pretend to care about the "anti-Semitism" in that article, when they're bringing in people who run around on the streets, belting Jews? Priorities.

If you want to argue against your bullshit, hysterical little strawman about someone excusing Israel's policies because of some guy in Germany belting Jews, pick the right context. I was answering to a guy who clearly tried to downplay the fairly obvious tendency of Arabs to not exactly be the biggest fans of Jewish people.

Nobody is excusing Israel's policies or the firing of this cartoonist. But lets face the facts here, most Arabs don't exactly like Jews. And that's not only because of Israel either. Germans seem to be able to look past the actual anti-Semitism of Muslims in Germany, but they're hysterical about a German's non-existent anti-Semitism in criticizing Israel's policy.

This line in the article I posted is especially "enlightening" when it comes to Germany's situation:

"For years, the leaders of the German Jewish community have warned that wearing a kippa could be dangerous in Berlin, especially in areas with a large Muslim population. But German police statistics would make it look as though the issue doesn't exist. According to them, 522 anti-Semitic crimes were registered in Germany in 2017, 479 of them committed by "right-wing extremists" -- that is, neo-Nazis. Only 19 incidents were ascribed to "foreign ideology" or "religious ideology" -- tags that could apply to Jew-hatred as practiced in the Islamic world. But Ann-Christin Wegener wrote in a recent study for the state of Hessen's constitutional protection department that the police tended to attribute the crimes to right-wing extremists when they had no clue of the perpetrators' motivations. Besides, she wrote, "right-wing extremist symbols are banned in Germany, a criminal offense to which there is no Islamist equivalent, and crimes committed using the Arabic or Turkish language result in police attention less frequently." The Israeli in Berlin had the advantage of understanding exactly what his attacker was shouting.
Germany, whose history makes sure anti-Semitism can never be a mundane problem, has to face up to "imported anti-Semitism," arriving with a tide of Muslim immigrants. After years of sweeping it under the rug, the country must learn to treat it as an integration problem, not just something the police should worry about. "

 

[PlayswellwithLawnDarts]

I won’t alologize for him and you shouldn’t either. Netanyahu I mean.

 

[WTF2008]

Really depends who you talk to. In this case Israel is getting a pass but that's because ze Germans are just too conflicted about criticizing Jews even if its legitimate given their past. And many American right wingers do give Israel a pass and the US government itself provides diplomatic cover for Israel in the international community.

But of course its also true that some people and circles are die hard critics of Israel.

You cannot put the Israeli pass on Republicans. It's some weird pass they get from both sides.

 

[cincymma79]

They are not as censoring of other criticism. Yes they do give cover for Islam, but then so does the UK. But as the articles on this controversy say, the newspaper was fine with criticism of Erdogan and Assad.

And Germany doesn't show the same degree of concern and sensitivity to the genocide they carried out in Namibia, as they do to the Holocaust.

Are they drawing cartoons of hage?
Anyway, they Did apologize for that just much later.

 

[Lord Commander Palis]

Meanwhile, the US gets a pass for taking down an entire race (Native Americans).

Tbf the intention wasn't genocide nor systematic and it wasn't only the US.

 

[IGotAHugePeckah]

I think freedom of expression is a really funny concept. People from all sides love to support it... until someone is expressing something they don't like.

Remember the Charlie Hebdo attack, and everyone was all about "Je suis Charlie" and freedom of expression, and then a year or so later they put out a cartoon mocking that dead refugee boy who washed up on the beach, and all of a sudden "freedom of expression" wasn't so cool lol

Art is art, and artists need to be free to create. If it offends you, don't fucking look at it.

 

[Sarge3000]

There is a clear double standard in the entire West, particularely Germany, when it comes to frankly talking about Israel, which is in effect not possible. The clear reason, proven by facts, is the amount of influence Zionist think-tanks, lobbies, and other organisations have. AIPAC for instance is the single most powerful lobby in the United States, with Trump pretty much doing everything they want, due to selling himself to them during the election.

And such occurences are not the exception in the West and in Germany. One might remember the late German poet Gunther Grass who criticised his own state for collaborating with the Israeli government (the German government shares virtually all its military technology with Israel, and gifted German nuclear submarine to the Israeli state) in what could become genocidal policies (the submarines are near undetectable with radar and can fire a nuke from anywhere, the probable targets would be Iranian or Syrian).

In Germany, the Israeli-American influence on the media was already called out by whistleblower Udo Ulfkotte, who died in his fifties of a "heart attack" a couple years after publishing his book (he detailed on how virtually all German press was controlled and watched by think-tanks connected to Washington such as: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantik-Brücke)

Sooner or later, we in the West will be called to account for this unlimited support we give a clearly criminal state.
Karma always comes around.

I actually have nothing against a large part of Israelis who just want to live in peace. But their government and a good part of their extremist population are expansionists and probably supremacists.

 

[livingdeadmoose]

I love how European left wing facism is on the rise yet they still like to criticize the U.S.

 

[salamander]

So you're mad because Germany doesn't hate Jews enough?

How so very Cathy Newman of you to ask.

 

[A.S. Deep]

Saudi Arabia and Turkey get more heat than Israel does here. Virtually no one defends those countries here while many do defend Israel.

Which I never got. I understand US politicians defending Israel for political reasons, but we're Internet posters, not diplomats who have to maintain military relations. Objectively, Israel, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, the Palestinians, and America are all pieces of shit regarding the Middle East in terms of the death and instability they've caused.

 

[Islam Imamate]

You cannot put the Israeli pass on Republicans. It's some weird pass they get from both sides.

Criticism of Israel in the US is more likely to come from the left but not really the establishment left and Israel does have bipartisan in our institutions support so fair enough.

 

[Grenz]

Obviously, my original point was that why does Germany act like they pretend to care about the "anti-Semitism" in that article, when they're bringing in people who run around on the streets, belting Jews? Priorities.

As someone who grew up in Germany, I can tell you that to Germans in general, the two things - caring about anti-semitism and bringing in a large number of refugees - are born from the same trauma, i.e. WW2 and gaining the reputation as the most destructive bigots in Europe. It's that whole holocaust thing again....

This is a psychosis within the German cultural mindset, and thus irrational, at least to a certain degree. Number 1, barely anybody who had anything to do with the holocaust is still alive, let alone in a position of authority (actually, there was a story a few years ago how they put a 90 year old on trial when they figured out he was a guard during the war at a KZ). Number 2, Germany can now objectively laud itself as one of the least racist societies on the planet, 80 years of constant repentance for ancestral crimes committed has basically eradicated racism from anywhere but the extreme right fringes.

The point I'm trying to make is that the average German today has fuck all to do with gassing 6 millions of Jews, and furthermore the average German today is the exact opposite of the kind of person who'd think it's ok to discriminate based on race, or anything else. This has been true for decades, probably since as early as the late 60s. But the psychosis, i.e. the irrational guilt for crimes committed by another generation, is strongest within what we'd call the baby boomer generation. Of course, baby boomers, just like on this continent, are still largely the ones running things. In that context, opening the doors to more than a million refugees, was the ultimate atonement for sins of the past for Merkel and those of her generation (and also younger Germans who carry the same trauma still, albeit not to the same degree). Finally we proved to everybody that we're nothing like the Germans of the second WW, but as I said, that's been true for decades anyway.

Say what you want about Germans, but they're not a stupid people, neither do they have a tendency for dishonesty, rather they are known for bluntness in truth. There was an optimism ('We can do it!') at the heart of the refugee acceptance program that effectively nullified the already existing worries. Since then, things have obviously become clearer, starting with the attacks in Cologne. I know that the narrative in certain news sources is pushed that German media don't report on these crimes, but they absolutely do, quite openly actually. The problems associated with refugees are well known and documented objectively, but due to the past trauma, the average German will be very slow to make any sort of judgement lest they be labeled racists (same dynamic as here, but with a worse implication, i.e. being labeled a Nazi in a country where that's literally the worst thing possible.