Kyokushin: Your face=punch magnet? | Page 8

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by Aerosol, Jul 25, 2017.

  1. SummerStriker Black Belt

    SummerStriker
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    I totally agree with the TS. I've sparred in a lot of kyokushin gyms and seen black belts from different places train. I'm not impressed. Kyokushin is easily my least favorite martial art. I think Shotokan is better for fighting and self defense because like six months of full contact kick boxing can turn a Shotokan man into a killer, while people that spent five years zombie walking into chest punches almost can't be helped.

    If toxic masculinity exists anywhere, it's in kyokushin. You can't reason with those people. They get their shit pushed in daily and it doesn't do them much good. I've never seen people suffer so much to gain so little.
     
    #141
  2. AshiharaFan Purple Belt

    AshiharaFan
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    Is it possible that you can elaborate on this? What is it about Shotokan that makes it better for fighting and self defense? And is it your opinion that a Shotokan Karateka would be a fighter after about 6 months of KB than a Kyokushin Karateka after 6 months of KB? If so, why?
     
    #142
  3. SummerStriker Black Belt

    SummerStriker
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    I've sparred with a bunch of Kyokushin black belts under MMA rules. One of them even had amateur boxing matches. Some had fought amateur MMA matches.

    There wasn't a thing different between them. If they had head movement, it was robotic and easy to see. They'd eat shots on purpose to show that they were manly. I'm not fooled by that kind of stupid shit so I'd make a point of hitting them in the same spots over and over. One dude I kept kneeing in the gut. Another I leg kicked over and over. Another was much shorter and smaller than me so I just jabbed him in the face the whole round. I was in a pissed mood whenever I saw any of those people because they were always doing something fucked up (beating the shit out of a weakling, screaming at someone to do a hand stand when they can't do pushups).

    They sure are tough, but that's the only good thing I have to say about them.

    People who do Shotokan learn how to move in and out fast and protect their head. Maybe they don't use a lot of head movement, but they can keep their hands up and use decent positioning. They can kick hard as fuck. Their only problem is that they respect the hits too much from all that light sparring and often don't realize they are learning to hit from a little too far away to do damage. A couple months of full contact KB with a good coach and they'll learn to dig those kicks in and work the jab. I have had the shit kicked out of me by dudes that do Shotokan who really weren't anything special, other than having been through the ringer at an MMA gym. I just wasn't good enough to hit them back and got lit up.

    They are always respectful, know how to exercise, quickly gain a realistic understanding of damage unclouded by macho bullshit, and are hard to damage without clinch fighting (which they can learn because they haven't been trained in bad habits like above).

    If I were to take Sherdog up in my hands like a sponge and squeeze out all the stupid bullshit bro science and the just bleed attitude and distill it into a gym where the philosophy is to never back down from shots to the face, and I think you'd have the average Kyokushin gym.
     
    #143
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  4. Jimmy Jazz Brown Belt

    Jimmy Jazz
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    maybe the quality of kk is just low where you are. It doesnt make sense for all the kk guys that do well in kickboxing if it were such a bad art. I know us shotokan/tang soo do guys are bad ass tho lol
     
    #144
  5. SummerStriker Black Belt

    SummerStriker
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    Hey, I'd like to see it in person as well. I was the one that was seeking it out. Also, we don't have it in my town. I had to travel to try it.

    Here is a video of some scrub MMA Shotokan fighter I never heard of:

     
    #145
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  6. Jimmy Jazz Brown Belt

    Jimmy Jazz
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    yeah but internationally I hear kk guys in japan, holland, russia etc are really tough.
     
    #146
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  7. AshiharaFan Purple Belt

    AshiharaFan
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    I appreciate the detailed reply. I don't necessarily disagree with anything you said I just wonder about the quality of the KK gyms and KK instructors and students where you are if you are routinely using them as your punching bags.

    If the KK people you sparred all had the same approach of eating shots to deliver their own or to display their toughness then I'd say that is typical of so many KK gyms BUT I personally do not think that is necessarily the "essence" of KK. Kyokushin means Ultimate Truth (as in the ultimate truth in combat) and part of that truth MUST contain common sense, humility and proper defense. So I PERSONALLY do not take the tough guy "I can take anything you can dish out" approach to sparring. I like to exercise strategy, tactics, footwork, defense and common sense to the fullest.

    But I do see the points that you've raised and based on my personal experience (and if I'm to be completely honest and unbiased) I cannot find anything that I can disagree with.

    BTW, I have ALWAYS respected Shotokan Karate (and just about all traditional Karate styles for that matter). I'm just not a fan of point sparring. But I have always been of the mindset that a Shotokan Karateka who trains in the full contact manner can potentially be a nightmare. Touché on the scrub MMA Shotokan fighter I never heard of.
     
    #147
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  8. j123 Pro Sherdogger 500-0-1

    j123
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    But that's what's so attractive about the style. Essentially a "TMA Let me Julian Lane"
     
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