Kyokushin vs Taekwondo Conditioning

[spacetime]

How come we have something called power training, in which we are instructed to drive through the mitts with the roundhouses, not just slap it? If you don't think we can't hit full force then lols...

 

[AshiharaFan]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm glad as hell I wore it after all the sports related impacts I took growing up. Having splitting headaches through the first few days of FB practice after game day taught me early on all I needed to know about how fragile the head really is.

Either way I don't think anybody can blame you for saying "No thanks, I think I'll pass" to certain activities. I try to remind people as often as I can that it is inadvisable to give caution the middle finger when it comes to their spine and their brain.

 

[shinkyoku]

How come we have something called power training, in which we are instructed to drive through the mitts with the roundhouses, not just slap it? If you don't think we can't hit full force then lols...

How come you need special training to do that?

 

[CFGroup]

Anyone doubting TKD in MMA after last night? Yair sliced through Penn and finished him of with a Ap Chagi front kick straight right combo!

TKD has the best movement principles, but not the best body impact conditioning like Kyokushin.

 

[AshiharaFan]

Anyone doubting TKD in MMA after last night? Yair sliced through Penn and finished him of with a Ap Chagi front kick straight right combo!

TKD has the best movement principles, but not the best body impact conditioning like Kyokushin.

Sherdog's #1 TKD advocate actually started a thread talking about this. Instead of cut and pasting my reply in that thread I'll just post the link to the reply itself (in case anyone here wanted to give their own feedback to that thread).

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/a...got-slaughtered.3450769/page-3#post-126248103

 

[moonwolf]

TKD's foundation includes knocking opponents down from horseback, hence the jumping (kick) techniques and need for lighter weight and dexterity.

 

[ARIZE]

You know TKD was founded in the 50s, right?

 

[a guy]

Anyone doubting TKD in MMA after last night? Yair sliced through Penn and finished him of with a Ap Chagi front kick straight right combo!

TKD has the best movement principles, but not the best body impact conditioning like Kyokushin.

Yair's kicks were dope and all, but he was kicking a heavy bag that happened to be dressed as a former world champ. This was much more a case of the younger, bigger, stronger, faster, more powerful and more athletic fighter beating an old, worn down vet who hasn't won a fight in 6 years than it was some kind of coming out party for tkd.

 

[Jimmy Jazz]

Anyone doubting TKD in MMA after last night? Yair sliced through Penn and finished him of with a Ap Chagi front kick straight right combo!

TKD has the best movement principles, but not the best body impact conditioning like Kyokushin.

I'm more used to seeing that combo in shotokan. was cool to see him doing. using kicks to set up punches is awesome.

 

[Hotora86]

I'm more used to seeing that combo in shotokan. was cool to see him doing. using kicks to set up punches is awesome.

Machida and his bro use the same kick punch combo regularly.

 

[Jimmy Jazz]

Machida and his bro use the same kick punch combo regularly.

yeah I remember him doing it on rich franklin back in the day!

 

[Hotora86]

yeah I remember him doing it on rich franklin back in the day!

Yup!

 

[CFGroup]

Sherdog's #1 TKD advocate actually started a thread talking about this. Instead of cut and pasting my reply in that thread I'll just post the link to the reply itself (in case anyone here wanted to give their own feedback to that thread).

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/a...got-slaughtered.3450769/page-3#post-126248103

I hear u man! I'm just noticing MMA fighters taking advantage of the MMA style that was claimed to be the best, but plagued by the blocky movement and the MT instinct to turtle up and absorb punishment.

Full disclosure I've had disdain for MMA standup until Anderson Silva's first fight against Leben.

Inflicting damage from distance is the lesson learned from BJ landing 3 strikes to getting hit over 60 times. That's not just an age differential, but a fundamental tactical differential.

One that I've trained and observed it's lacking of in MMA till the new blood has come in and used it successfully.

 

[AshiharaFan]

Inflicting damage from distance is the lesson learned from BJ landing 3 strikes to getting hit over 60 times. That's not just an age differential, but a fundamental tactical differential.

This is true. I agree with you 100%. In fact I think you made one of the best points in this whole thread in your last post:

TKD has the best movement principles, but not the best body impact conditioning like Kyokushin.

I like this observation. Why should we have to choose one principle over the other? I think our training will yield better results if we spent time on both aspects of combat. Master the movement principles and distance and try to avoid sustaining damage as TKD teaches but have the tough physical (and mental) conditioning that Kyokushin specializes for when the distance is closed and you find yourself in close distance trench fighting.

 

[shinkyoku]

TKD's foundation includes knocking opponents down from horseback, hence the jumping (kick) techniques and need for lighter weight and dexterity.

No, despite unfounded myths, no jumping kick has ever been designed to dismount a rider. Not counting actual history (instead of nationalistic propaganda) on when and how tkd was created, the notion is unrealistic on so many levels it is laughable. There is the height to kick, the point that the rider is secured with saddle and stirrups and holding on to a big horse with his legs, probably moving, the fact that successful or not, the kicker lands head first on the ground. Next time you are close to someone riding a horse, think of angles of impact and what would happen. The whole thing will seem pretty silly. That particular myth is one of the worst half-baked ideas ever created by someone who had never had to do it. Probably improvised on the spot after a student asked "why" and he didnt have a answer.
One of the common "clarification" is that it was used from ambush from elevated positions against unwary riders. But anyone with half a brain will think of better ways to ambush a unwary cavaleryman -most likely using a club, stone, pointy stick or other... what is the word... WEAPON.

 

[CFGroup]

No, despite unfounded myths, no jumping kick has ever been designed to dismount a rider. Not counting actual history (instead of nationalistic propaganda) on when and how tkd was created, the notion is unrealistic on so many levels it is laughable. There is the height to kick, the point that the rider is secured with saddle and stirrups and holding on to a big horse with his legs, probably moving, the fact that successful or not, the kicker lands head first on the ground. Next time you are close to someone riding a horse, think of angles of impact and what would happen. The whole thing will seem pretty silly. That particular myth is one of the worst half-baked ideas ever created by someone who had never had to do it. Probably improvised on the spot after a student asked "why" and he didnt have a answer.
One of the common "clarification" is that it was used from ambush from elevated positions against unwary riders. But anyone with half a brain will think of better ways to ambush a unwary cavaleryman -most likely using a club, stone, pointy stick or other... what is the word... WEAPON.

I'm fucking embarrassed anyone would try to come up with that laughable theory!

The Japanese used a Bisen-To an 8 foot staff with a 3 foot curved blade to attack cavalry and dismount them.

since Japan occupied Korea they were familiar with the weapon and developed their own version!

Holy shit!

TKD theory, and it's easily looked up on google, is longest weapon to nearest target.

That simple!

 

[SteadyEddy]

IMO the instructor and the people you train with is much more important than the actual art. It's better to receive top level instruction from a less reputated traditional style and sparr with very high level competitors, as opposed to training in a mcdojo of a reputed style or a crappy Muay Thai or MMA gym.

Tayski, can you elaborate on this a little bit? Only reason I ask is because I'm thinking about getting into martial arts, and I come from a boxing background. I live near a mma gym called American Top Team in FL, and I just want to know is it not worth going to then? I really need to learn kicks, and a ground game and I thought it would be the place to go. I just want to hear your opinion why a traditional school with a high level instructor would be better than an MMA gym.

 

[a guy]

Tayski, can you elaborate on this a little bit? Only reason I ask is because I'm thinking about getting into martial arts, and I come from a boxing background. I live near a mma gym called American Top Team in FL, and I just want to know is it not worth going to then? I really need to learn kicks, and a ground game and I thought it would be the place to go. I just want to hear your opinion why a traditional school with a high level instructor would be better than an MMA gym.

Key word in his post was crappy mma gym. There isn't a traditional school on the planet that will prepare you better for an mma fight than fucking ATT.

 

[j123]

No, despite unfounded myths, no jumping kick has ever been designed to dismount a rider. Not counting actual history (instead of nationalistic propaganda) on when and how tkd was created, the notion is unrealistic on so many levels it is laughable. There is the height to kick, the point that the rider is secured with saddle and stirrups and holding on to a big horse with his legs, probably moving, the fact that successful or not, the kicker lands head first on the ground. Next time you are close to someone riding a horse, think of angles of impact and what would happen. The whole thing will seem pretty silly. That particular myth is one of the worst half-baked ideas ever created by someone who had never had to do it. Probably improvised on the spot after a student asked "why" and he didnt have a answer.
One of the common "clarification" is that it was used from ambush from elevated positions against unwary riders. But anyone with half a brain will think of better ways to ambush a unwary cavaleryman -most likely using a club, stone, pointy stick or other... what is the word... WEAPON.

Not to mention the horse is most likely a war horse bred for war (horse version of fighters) so they see some autistic tard' trying to kick it or the rider, it'll stand up to protect its rider. Also the dude is probably armed with a spear as well.

There was a thread years back here and one poster said his half assed theory of why the reverse punch was used against armed attackers. Dude went off about TKD being a war art created in medieval times: swordman would swing down at a 45 deg. and the idea when the unarmed guy pulled his arm back the swing would miss and he would be able to counter him perfectly.
Another poster made a good point saying: yeah, explain why every culture, race, and ethnicity on the planet uses weapons over unarmed then, and if it was so call bred for war, how come we don't hear about a bunch of dudes punching holes through people's armors

 

[ARIZE]

I will repeat myself, TKD was founded in the 50's...after the second world war...a war fought with automatic weapons, planes, tanks, submarines...atomic bombs... There is more logic to say that boxing was founded to dismount someone than TKD. Or to defend from a sword...